Should my child's class have a qualified teacher everyday?

[Jap26]

Aibu to expect that my year 5 child has a qualified teacher everyday at school. Teachers have been announced for the next school year and the year 5 teacher is part time doing 4 days a week, no teaching cover has been arranged and the plan is for various TA's to cover the 5th day. The school have confirmed that with ppa time for the class teacher they will only have an actual teacher 3.5 days a week. None of the TA's have any relevant qualifications. As an ad hoc arrangement to cover sickness I think this is fine but they are planning do to this every week. Before I complain I just want a reality check on if this is standard practice

There's a shortage of teachers! The other option would be what a primary school did near me when parents complained about the TA taking classes; which was 2 days a week they shipped one class from year 5 to a primary school down the road. Which was a lot more disruptive for the kids being separated from friends and having to try to form new relationships for a few hours each week.

Should they have qualified teachers all day everyday - yes
Can they - no but that's the governments fault

Would be interesting to see what is planned for the 5th day and teaching cover. Perhaps the FT teacher could be split between the 2 classes on the 5th day, so that both classes are getting an even split on the qualified teacher!
Seems lazy, as I have come across plenty of teachers who would happily do a single set day in school. Also means they know the school and can often be happy to act as a supply teacher when needed.
Problem is schools doing this are undermining the need for fully qualified teachers being needed for educating children!

@crumblingschools sorry, that was sloppy wording.

One of the aims of academies was to give the schools control of how they deliver the curriculum, including who they employ to do it. As with all schools, academies have small budgets and one way they can save money is to employ cheaper teaching staff. Cheaper often means unqualified.

Obviously the shortage of teachers makes this even harder. But to be honest, even if there were plenty of teachers looking for jobs, the budget situation means schools would still have to use TAs to cover lessons. The academy rules allow them to do that.

This thread has completely blown my mind.
so many saying it is the norm and acceptable. So many teachers and TA’s not knowing their rights.
This is happening far too often and the answer is NO! In a state school this should not be happening, but schools are taking advantage of TA’s & HLTA’s and no one speaks up.
A qualified teacher should be teaching your children. Many people have said it is possible the TA’s or HLTA’s have QTS, this is possible, but I can assure you if this is the case the school would 100% have shouted that from the roof tops.
Look at all union advice. HLTA’s (not TA’s) can cover classes on a short term basis or in an emergency. It should NOT be permanent.
Schools are using HLTA’s on a much lower wage to do a teachers job. This is not ok!

@HannaLaura I don't see "many posters accepting it" as you state. What other option do parents have - move your DC every time they're in a school that does this?

My DC's primary had a standalone music teacher, who wasn't replaced when she retired, class cover was provided by a supervisor who had experience at teaching at university level (I knew her outside of work) but not to primary children. These situations aren't ideal but the other primary near us is in no better a position.

Please, what do you suggest these parents do, other than "put up with it" / "accept... it" in your terms?

neu.org.uk/advice/member-groups/support-staff/hltas-and-cover-supervisors

We’ve had to put up with this since Easter. We have a part time teacher that does 2 days plus one day of planning which is covered by the TA then we’ve had a series of supply teachers covering the other 2 days. It hasn’t been great at all and I’m just desperately hoping for a full time teacher next year. They haven’t been able to recruit to fill vacancies though so are merging 2 year groups from September. I haven’t complained because I imagine they are totally stuck. I’ve just been doing as much as I can at home to make up for it.

If the TA’s didn’t have the relevant qualifications they wouldn’t be able to do the cover. What makes you think they’re not qualified? They probably work with the children every day so they’re familiar with the lessons and structure of the day not to mention with the children. I’d rather a TA who’s known to my child do that one day a week than have a random supply come in who’ll have to keep being reminded of their names and not knowing where they’ve left off from the week before.

i can’t believe ‘teachers’ on here are really saying that a english specialist with qts is more qualified than a ta with a phd in maths for teaching maths? lol no wonder grammars and privates do better at stem.

It depends on the TA. At my kids primary school, the TA’s had all been at the school for donkeys years. Knew all the kids really well and knew class content back to front. Most of them were much better than the newly qualified teachers that they had rolling through the doors every year.
If I were you I’d just wait and see. If you notice gaps in your child’s learning, then complain, but no point in complaining without seeing if it works first.

How many TAs are experienced though? I think we have reached crazy talk if we now talk of TAs having PhD in maths.....sorry that's la la land.....that is not what a normal TA is.

They are not qualified, that’s why they are TA’s and not teachers. They are there to support, not teach.
Schools are abusing cover. They would rather pay a TA on a very low wage than pay for agency staff at a much higher rate.
TA’s legally should not be covering a class on a permanent basis.
Are the school willing to pay that TA on a teachers salary for that day?

@Witchtower completely agree with your point about abusing TAs, but as most schools won't recruit 'more expensive' teachers with more experience, they're highly unlikely to pay that TA.

@Jap26 This is becoming increasingly common. Write to your MP about teacher retention, better wages for teachers and better funding for schools. Then your child will have the education they deserve, and the one that all teachers want them to have. Teachers don't leave because they want to - a lot of the time its down to money, poor management, and poor behaviour from students caused by lack of parental discipline.

I am a teacher and used to work 1 day a week at a school, teaching the Friday for a teacher who worked 4 days. In my opinion, you should be getting a qualified teacher on that 5th day (except sickness of course), given that is a regular thing I don’t think it’s acceptable. However, it is very normal for TAs to cover PPA.
My current school actually has teachers specifically hired for PPA, meaning there is always a teacher in class. It does make a big difference and means the TAs can actually do their jobs properly as they’re not being pulled left right and centre!

TAs are skilled, SO important and brilliant, but they don’t have the specific training of different teaching strategies etc. Some are certainly capable of doing it, but should someone who barely earns a salary and works their socks off already then be expected to also teach the class each week and have that additional stress? I don’t think that’s fair on them!

What I find really sad that the funding in schools has really not been discussed by main parties in this general election. Lots of talk about VAT on private school fees but that won’t have any impact on the situation in OP’s case, or in other schools across the country

@TeacherAnonymous123 absolutely, but if TA’s/HLTA’s used their union benefits and fought this then we wouldn’t have this issue.
It is happening far too often.

@Witchtower completely agree, but I think its become so normalised that most staff, including teachers, just accept it. It's a very sad state of affairs.

@Witchtower what do you think schools will do if can’t use TAs. I think 60% of state schools had budget warnings, many Academies are facing deficits

I'm a TA in Scotland and this absolutely isn't the case. The only time we don't have a teacher is in the playground. I've never been responsible for the class for more than a few minutes while the teacher nips to the loo or takes a crucial phone call. Even then that is rare and the class would be either playing or doing a fun activity not a formal learning task. No way I'd be taking full responsibility for lessons on my measly wage!

Absolutely but if you believe that the budget doesn’t include wages for staff then I’m not sure what to say.
Personally I believe a qualified teacher comes before any other expenditure.

If the school can afford to employ x amount of TA’s then they can afford a teacher.
I’m sorry but school budgets are horrendous, I agree, but there is enough money to employ teachers to teach a class.
I also think agencies are very pricey and there is nothing wrong with getting a HLTA to cover a class but this should be on a short term basis or an emergency not permanent.
when I was a HLTA for a number of years my wage was similar to an ECT. Obviously an ECT could climb the ladder quite rapidly whereas I was on the maximum I could earn, but I am not a teacher, it is not in my JD and I was employed as support staff not as a teacher, but was used as one.

YANBU to want a qualified teacher, it should be the absolute minimum of course. But schools are underfunded, teachers are poorly paid and people are leaving the profession in swathes, so what else can they do?

Best thing you can do is use your vote on Thursday...

Very normal and likely at senior school that OE teachers will be teaching maths and Science despite mediocre grades at GCSE and no A’Level in the subject, they just do a delivering the subject course.

Recruiting a qualified teacher for 1.5 days a week is never going to be easy, I'm afraid.

@Witchtower you would be mistaken to believe that the budget given to a school is based on the number of teachers they need. Funding is given per pupil and if your school is a single form entry Primary it is assumed that you should have 210 pupils. However, many Primaries have falling rolls so not all classes have 30 pupils. If you have classes with less than 15 you can mix year groups making a mixed class of 30 and save a teacher’s salary. Class sizes of 27 and above will have an impact on funding but usually manageable. Anything between 16-26 is a nightmare. Can’t mix as too big so need 7 classes with requisite adult in the room, but not getting funding for at least one of those adults.

Then bring in the fact that parts of the staffing costs eg pay rises, pension contributions are not being fully funded. Other price hikes not being covered by funding and schools are in budget crisis. Between 70-80% of school budgets go on staffing. Doesn’t leave a lot for resources, utilities, maintenance etc.

Schools are having to find ways to ensure they have an adult in every room they need to have one in, it might not just be the right adult but can’t do better because of their budgets

It's not ideal, but in actual fact will probably be fine. The teacher/the partner teacher from the other Year 5 class will do all the planning, and the TA will be delivering the lesson.