Should my child's class have a qualified teacher everyday?

[Jap26]

Aibu to expect that my year 5 child has a qualified teacher everyday at school. Teachers have been announced for the next school year and the year 5 teacher is part time doing 4 days a week, no teaching cover has been arranged and the plan is for various TA's to cover the 5th day. The school have confirmed that with ppa time for the class teacher they will only have an actual teacher 3.5 days a week. None of the TA's have any relevant qualifications. As an ad hoc arrangement to cover sickness I think this is fine but they are planning do to this every week. Before I complain I just want a reality check on if this is standard practice

Parents are always angry at the wrong people when they find out their child doesn't have a teacher.

There have been so many threads on MN in recent years telling parents that the education sector is in crisis and failing our kids due to funding crisis, teacher retention crisis and teacher recruitment crisis, and many posters just think it is teachers moaning and whinging, until it is suddenly their child that is impacted and then it is the school's fault, and want to complain to the HT. As if the HT didn't realise they were putting an unqualified person in front of the class and paying someone pretty much NMW to teach a class.Do you think the HT wants to do this, do you not think the HT has been doing everything they possibly can to avoid this situation.

So forgive me if I don’t automatically agree that a qualified teacher is always better than an unqualified one. In my experience, that is not the case.

I didn't say that they are. But what is the point in saying it in the way that you have said it?

The reason that trainees are getting shitter is the same reason that the OP's kid doesn't have a teacher. The total mismanagement of education by politicians, the degrading of pay and conditions.

It shouldn't be 'oh your kid doesn't have a qualified teacher, but hey, a qualified teacher might be shit so an unqualified one might be better'

It should be 'yeah, it's shit your kid doesn't have a qualified teacher. It's also shit that the quality of teachers coming through training is degrading because beggars can't be choosers. Both of these things need solving urgently by a new government who chooses to invest in education.'

Talking down the quality of qualified teachers while talking up the quality of the warm body who will be put in the classroom to fill their absence isn't anything other than an argument against bothering with qualifications in the first place.

@noblegiraffe

Please don’t patronise me. I’m a very experienced faculty lead and an NEU rep. I’m campaigning for meaningful change on a daily basis. I know that the quality of new teachers is shite because we can’t attract good people into the profession. I’m not an idiot.

But this wasn’t the topic of this thread. The OP was upset about her child being taught by an unqualified teacher. She can’t change that reality right now. The school can’t change that reality right now. The school and the OP and her child have to work with what they’ve got. I was simply attempting to reassure by saying that an unqualified teacher is not always equal to your child getting a substandard education.

When it comes to the bigger picture, yes absolutely no school, no child and no parent should be in a position where they’ve got someone with inadequate training, experience and knowledge in charge of a classroom. Absolutely we all need to be campaigning for meaningful change. But in the here and now - to reassure a parent - I don’t think it’s unreasonable of me to make the point that unqualified teachers do not equal substandard ones. The reality is there are a lot of brilliant people working as unqualified teachers in schools doing a sterling job for shit pay. They shouldn’t be - but they are - and if I were one of them, I wouldn’t appreciate people denigrating me in the way they are on this thread.

You are not the only person standing up for the rights of teachers. I do it every bloody day. Give me a break, please. You’re twisting my words into making me out to believe and advocate for something I’ve never said, and I really don’t appreciate it.

You could say 'it's possible that the unqualified teacher will be fine' to try to reassure a worried parent without saying 'loads of qualified teachers are shit anyway'.

But I also note that this always happens on threads where a parent is worried that their primary school child doesn't have a teacher. You don't see it on threads where parents are worried that their kid doesn't have a qualified maths teacher. People don't fall over themselves to say 'oh it'll be fine, TAs are often better than maths teachers' or 'qualified maths teachers sometimes can't teach for toffee anyway'. They say 'yeah, it's shit that the government has wrecked teaching and now we can't hire maths teachers, your best bet is to hire a tutor to try to fill in the gaps.'

It's pretty insulting to the skill of a primary teacher, tbh.

Yep. It's always primary teachers that are degraded. Anyone will do, in the end, because the TAs are nice and friendly.

My TAs were great at what they did. Couldn't have done without them. But what I needed then to be good at, wasn't what I'm good at and was qualified to do.

Only about 10% or so could have covered my class (with my planning) for more then a couple of days. My best one managed to keep my class going, purposefully occupied and behaviour managed, for a couple of weeks when I was off sick, and could easily do a day a week. But the planning, the assessment, the targeting, the paperwork, etc... that was not in her realm of training or experience.

That teacher who is only in school three days a week, will be doing a full time load of all that stuff, so will probably work one of her 'days off' because she has to plan an her TA's lessons, assess the outcomes and do everything else regarding those two days when the TA is being "every bit as good as the teacher"... with the teachers planning, resources and direction.

My DS is about to start Reception year and will only have a qualified teacher for 3 days per week, and a HLTA for 2 days per week. There's an additional TA who will be there 5 days per week.

This is one of the aims of Academies. Turning schools into academies changes the rules for those schools; one of which is that children don't need to be taught by qualified teachers. It is up to the school to determine that the "teacher" is up to the job, and qualifications are not necessary.

In thus debate there is also a bit of an assumption about what a TA is. In my child's primary In London they are mostly 19 year olds. No idea why they are doing it. But they certainly don't have years of experience. In fact, there is barely anyone over the age of 30 - which means that people with years of classroom experience are severely lacking and no TAs also don't have it.

@HappyAsASandboy it’s not the aim of Academies, it’s because school budgets are woeful and even if they could afford to pay a teacher there probably isn’t one available.

Private schools also don’t have to have qualified teachers

I am an ex TA who left last year after many years working in a school. I have a degree. But I left because I didn't want to be solely responsible for 32 children on a regular basis. When the class have their teacher there is a chance the teacher has a TA to support for at least part of the day. When the TA has the class they are ALWAYS completely unsupported. I loved being a TA but I am not a teacher and I hated knowing I wasn't doing as good a job as the class teacher for the increasing number of hours I was being expected to have the class. Using TAs as stand in teachers will lead to a lack of TAs and then what will happen? Will it be fine for the midday/afterschool club staff to start having the class because 'they already know the children!'?

I would take my child out of school in that day

complete failing by the school

No, complete failing by the government.

And there's no guarantee a different school would be any better.

Good luck finding one that doesn’t have recruitment issues, schools are doing their best. Blame the Tories, what they've done to education is criminal

Some of our local primaries are desperate enough to have one teacher across two forms, working with a TA and swapping between the classes in the year group. Basically the teacher delivers the task then the TA the independent work and they swap over. Another does this with 60 together sometimes, then splitting into two groups of 30 for independent work.
Our secondaries have very long term non teacher agency cover, for some lower year groups in maths they’ve had to qualified maths teachers this year

We need 3 maths teachers for September, we haven’t had a single applicant, and this is an outstanding school in an affluent area.

Please complain you your council and MP. The school have no choice as recruitment and retention is so bad. We need parents to help teachers and the unions to get this changed in law. Every child deserves a qualified teacher every day.

YANBU to find this situation unacceptable.

However, it will not be the schools preferred solution either. I expect that recruiting a teacher for one day per week has proved impossible in the current recruitment crisis.

I think we will probably see more of this in coming years unless something is done to improve working conditions and pay erosion of teachers.

Personally, I would write to the Head and governors to raise an objection, and then make the best of it. In our school, the children in this class would be protected from any similar disadvantage that might occur next year.

Why do you think it’s your place to dictate what people can and can’t say on this issue?

Other people are allowed a different viewpoint on an issue to you.

Again, you are claiming I’ve said something I haven’t. I haven’t uniquely insulted the skills of primary school teachers. I would say exactly the same about unqualified teachers in secondary. My only teaching experience is in secondary schools, after all. As I have said upthread, one of the best secondary colleagues I’ve ever worked with was technically ‘unqualified’. Very talented and well qualified people can choose to work as unqualified teachers for all sorts of reasons. I’m not going to join in with saying all unqualified teachers are not good enough to teach when I simply don’t believe that to be true within the realms of my own experience.

Once again, that doesn’t mean I think it’s ok that schools are in a position where they’re forced to fill teaching gaps with unqualified people.

However, just because someone is unqualified it doesn’t mean they can’t do the job, and likewise just because someone is qualified, it doesn’t mean they can do the job either. That is a truth that is relevant to this discussion. It doesn’t mean I agree with or support the underfunding of schools and it doesn’t mean I think primary school teachers aren’t skilled. You are claiming I hold beliefs I haven’t expressed by making entirely false equivalences.

Of course it's 'the norm' these days. I'd say you were very lucky indeed if your children were taught, every day, for the entire of their schooling by a fully qualified teacher!

I'm not saying it's right...it isn't...but schools can no longer afford to cover staff if they are off or have cut down their hours.

I'm 30 years into my career (primary teacher) and for at least the last 15 years we have been completely strapped for cash. For the past 10 years, TAs or HLTAs have been used for regular cover. We were told a couple of weeks ago that from September there is NO outside cover at all! It's horrific! I'm cutting down to 3 days from September (I'll turn 60 and I've had it!) and my '2-day 'job share' is going to be two different TAs on the days I'm not in. I was asked to provide all the work for those 2 days. I asked if they were going to pay me to do this, as I will clearly only be paid to plan for the .6 that I'm in school. Of course the answer was 'no'...so my answer was also 'no'. I have no idea what work my class will do on those 2 days but that's not my problem. Sounds harsh...but I've spent the last 10 years (since it all really went to shit in education!) working 70 hours a week...I'll still be working around 45 on a reduced week (whilst being paid for 19.5!!!) I'm sure as hell not doing any more 'free labour'.

OP...you are not being unreasonable but you are being absolutely unrealistic in this climate. Unfortunately 😢

Absolutely. Parent action is needed on a widespread scale to advocate for change. And we need parents to support teachers when they go on strike over these issues rather than complaining that they’ve lost their childcare for the day.

@twentysevendresses We have a great primary beside us but I don’t think I should consider myself lucky that my children had qualified teachers at school! Cover is one thing, but the OP is talking about the school literally formalising unqualified teachers for the year.

As I said…it’s not
‘unreasonable’ to wish this. However, sadly it has become unrealistic to expect it 🤷‍♀️ Also, as I said, it’s no longer ‘cover’ - these arrangements ARE being formalised, as in the OPs case and my own - and many, many more cases. It’s even more prevalent in secondary education, where HLTAs are now formally taking classes all the time. It used to be ‘just covering’ but not any more. A friend of mine who was a HLTA at a local high school has been formally teaching History (from Year 9-Year Year 13, so GCSE and A Level) for the past 2 years. She’s still a HLTA and also has a form/tutor group with all the additional responsibilities that entails. It’s a truly dreadful state of affairs. So yes, you WERE lucky if this was not your experience.

Sadly this is the result of underpaid, overworked and disrespected teachers.

It's standard practise in Tory Britain. Bet it doesn't happen at Eton or Harrow!!
The education system is on its knees. Your child is among mamy who is being taught by non qualified/non specialist teachers because teachers are leaving in droves.

Unfortunately, schools are finding it very hard to get staff at the moment. However, there are 2 issues I would definitely take up with the Head here. 1. Part time is never guaranteed. The school has to give it ‘due consideration’. If they can’t cover the 5th day appropriately then PT hours should have been refused. 2. You’re talking about year 5. It is unacceptable to allow a teacher to go PT in year 5 if the 5th day can’t be covered by a job share. They really should have swapped the teacher with another year group eg year 3. I don’t normally suggest this but if I were you I would try to drum up support from the other parents then either write a letter of complaint signed by all of you or write a letter which says they have chosen one if you to speak on their behalf (if you ask them all to make individual complaints, they’ll say they will but they won’t). It definitely needs taking up with the Head.

The situation is increasingly normal, unfortunately. However, it is totally legitimate to think that it's not good enough. It isn't good enough. But the school will be doing it because they have no other option.