Should my child's class have a qualified teacher everyday?

[Jap26]

Aibu to expect that my year 5 child has a qualified teacher everyday at school. Teachers have been announced for the next school year and the year 5 teacher is part time doing 4 days a week, no teaching cover has been arranged and the plan is for various TA's to cover the 5th day. The school have confirmed that with ppa time for the class teacher they will only have an actual teacher 3.5 days a week. None of the TA's have any relevant qualifications. As an ad hoc arrangement to cover sickness I think this is fine but they are planning do to this every week. Before I complain I just want a reality check on if this is standard practice

I agree with the person who said use your vote on Thursday. Though you can do little about the behaviour of some parents towards teachers, which I am sure drives some out of the profession.

Labour haven’t said what they are going to do about this. So don’t expect miracles

I know of many Primary school teachers who have left the profession

Ah ok, I thought this was usual.
My girls are in seperate schools (infants and juniors) and both have PE, forest school, music with a different teacher Both schools have specialist teachers for each of these (on top of each class having a teacher - most full time but some 4 days a week), and the time the classes are with them is then the class teachers PPA time.

Moving class could also be disruptive.
And it's not just about the time - there are excellent teachers in my daughters school who I would take them having 4 days over having other less good ones 5 days. A really good teacher will be able to cover the core work in their 4 days, and leave activities to consolidate learning for the TA to do the 5th day.
I would ask though, is there going to be more than 1 TA. If class usually has class teacher plus TA, then on the day the teacher isn't there, there should be a 2nd TA supporting

@Bushmillsbabe many schools can’t afford a TA in every class with a teacher

To be honest, a good TA or HLTA who knows the school, the children and is familiar with the planning is often a lot better than a shipped in 'qualified' teacher.

The reality is that nothing will improve in schools until more money is invested to fix the issues that cause teachers to leave the profession in droves.

Labour is a waste of time on education because all they want to do is score points with taxing parents who have - in many cases - been forced to educate their children outside of the state system because the state schools local to them aren’t fit for purpose or wouldn’t meet the needs of their children. This will do nothing to improve the education system for anyone. It’s an entirely performative policy that has no practical outcome and is deliberately divisive.

Secondary schools are far too large. Class sizes as a whole are too big. We need more schools, on smaller scales, with maximum class sizes of 20. We need more teachers so that they are able to teach fewer hours per day and therefore have time to plan, mark and do their administration within the confines of their working day. We need a return to special
schools educating children with severe needs so that they can have the specialist support they need to flourish, and we need to stop expecting mainstream class teachers to cope with multiple SEN students with little to no training or support.

Make the job manageable and enjoyable without the silly hours and the unreasonable demands and you would be able to take your pick of candidates for teacher training and recruitment and retention would no longer be an issue. If you want intelligent, well educated and knowledgeable professionals in front of children who are enthused by their work and have the time and energy to focus on giving each of their students the support they need, you need the teaching profession to be one that is rewarding, fulfilling and well paid, in which people can have work life balance and the time to continue to learn and develop themselves as professionals.

This is what independent schools offer teachers. It’s why I’ve worked in them for most of my career. If Labour stopped trying to tax them into oblivion and instead focused on how we can make all children have an independent school experience, then we might get somewhere.

Teaching - in the right environment - is the best job in the world. At the moment though, many schools are toxic, stressful environments where impossible demands are put on teachers. It’s no wonder schools can’t fill vacancies. And yet every time teachers go on strike to protest against the absolute shitshow the government has created, we are unsupported by the public and parents, and criticised for being lazy whingers who are always on holiday. If parents want their children educated properly, they have to stand with teachers.

This is so true.
My daughters schools (state primary school in leafy home counties village) have what feels like an excess of teachers. They have specialist teachers for music, PE and languages, they have extra teachers for cover as headteacher has a thing about not wanting supply teachers so keeps an extra teacher on staff to cover sickness etc. Lots of small group teacher led sessions to support those struggling and extend learning for higher achievers. And class sizes of about 20.
My oldests teacher left for a year to go to another school as head of year, the following year she was back in her previous position of class teacher as she said the increase in salary was not worth it for the way she was treated by the parents.
Parent and child behaviour pushes many out of this valuable profession. My daughters school doesn't have a huge budget due to low numbers of pupils, but manages to keep a high number of strong teachers due to excellent leadership and parental support for the school making it a lovely place to work.

I agree with what you’re saying but I also think this is down to demographics.
Budgets aren’t that simple.

I have recently worked in a school where there was a restructure and three redundancies in two years.
Our pupil count was 600 and went down to 200. Many classes having 15 children each.
This is in a very deprived area of London, with low parent engagement.
Each class had a teacher.
I specialised in behaviour and intervention. First the lunchtime staff went and we (TA’s) took over the role, the the TA’s began to go, so the teachers had to give up their lunches. We didn’t have much staff, but each class had a teacher with QTS. Whatever TA’s were left, were shared.
Teachers are also being abused but too many are scared to speak up due to being pushed out.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a HLTA to cover a class in an emergency but to employ them to do a teachers role, absolutely not.
Would you expect to pay a qualified tradesman at an apprentices rates?
It’s a completely different role.

I think you’re downplaying the role of a TA all curricular activities will be planned and set for the children and the TA’s will just deliver it. My child has had TAs covering the Friday and I have no issue with it.

This is the reality of a Teacher Shortage.

It's even worse in Secondary schools where many teachers will be unqualified or teaching out of their subject area. I left teaching last summer due to the abusive behaviour, unreasonable workload, unsupportive parents and inflexible working. Many of my colleagues have also left.

This year I have been working as a supply teacher and the lack of staffing in many schools has shocked me. I am hoping for a change of government and education being prioritised once more. When I first qualified in 2003 schools there was much more funding: classes were smaller, there was admin support, more SEND support and money for basics like books and glue sticks. The last 5 years in education have been brutal.

I also question Labour's policy about recruiting new teachers. Currently, the ones being recruited are not staying more than 5 years. We need to value and keep the teachers who are already in the system.

As a parent I am very unhappy and concerned about the current situation.

@EnidSpyton absolutely. Rather that putting down private schools, we should be aiming for a private school experience for every child. And my daughters primary school is testament that it is doable in state schools. 20-22 children per class, huge grounds, excellent teachers and 2 TA's per class, forest school, IT science and art labs, numerous external provider workshops, swimming lessons in year 2 & year 4, extended day with free small group teacher led tutoring for those who are struggling. Yes it's in a nice area, but it's a mixed catchment with higher than national average FSM and SEN, so not solely about demographics.

I would question how they are managing their budgets then. My daughters school has a lower budget than many due to lower pupil numbers (average 22 per class) but they have between 1 and 3 TA's in each class depending on needs of the pupils, one class has 4 where they have high number of children with additional needs.

May I ask where you live?
I am always quite curious about this.
I am in London and agree, in the schools I have worked in there had always been a shortage, but I am wondering if that is due to working conditions as any of the outstanding schools in my area do not have this issue.
These are also the schools that have between a 0.5-1 mile radius catchment area and all have 1mil houses surrounding them.
I also see that small villages don’t have this issue.
There is clearly the opposite issue in Scotland as there are currently too many teachers there at the moment, but this is due to the incentives given to become a teacher.

Either they are running a very big budget deficit, they had a very big budget surplus they are running through or there’s a benefactor in there giving them five figure sums a year. Have you looked at their financial performance figures?

State schools in England are simply not funded to provide a qualified teacher and multiple TAs per class of twenty children, plus extra for teacher led groups and the like. It absolutely is not doable for most state schools - excellent leadership and supportive parents only goes so far. Unless you mean parents are supportive by giving significant sums of money, in which case that’s hardly realistic in most schools either.

@Bushmillsbabe I would be surprised that they will continue like that. No school I know has 4 TAs in one class, bearing in mind most EHCPs don't fund a 1:1 full-time anymore. Do you have a high level of pupil premium children (can see that on Get Information About school website). There is no way pupil numbers of 22 per class are funding 4TAs. I would be questioning how your school is managing its budget.

@Bushmillsbabe have they announced their staffing for next year?

Unions are requesting £3,000 pay rise for support staff, that will be a killer for a school with so many support staff

Completely comes down to the people in question, I have a friend who is a TA and more than capable of teaching, in fact he'd be better than some of the teachers in his school. However he doesn't want to do it because he doesn't want the stress because he sees what they go through and he prefers his part time hours.

Flip side, I had students teach me at university as the proper lecturers didn't want to cover all the hours, they were rubbish and terrible at taking classes and I still see it as a waste of my tuition fees.

I'm interested to know if the TAs are being paid an equivalent rate to the teachers for doing the same job, or at least some kind of increased pay, or if they're expected to do it for the usual low TA wages?

They only have swimming lessons for yr 2 and yr 4? My local state schools do them weekly for yr 3 as well. And cycling.

Bit weird to leave the yr 3s out.

Might need to give your head a bit of a wobble. That's what teacher's assistants are there for - To ASSIST the teacher. And as many others have stated - There's a shortage of teachers right now

You should be thankful someone's there to actually teach your child. Its one day a week surely your child won't suffer

I live in Essex. The area I live in is fairly affluent and my children's primary school is well staffed with mostly qualified teachers - I know people who work there so am aware of who the teachers are. TAs do cover PPA but the children are mainly taught by qualified teachers.

However, for the last 11 years I have worked in one of the most deprived areas of Essex. It is very difficult to find people willing to work in the most challenging schools. It was tricky to recruit the whole time I worked there but in recent years the school has become increasingly reliant on unqualified teachers or people recruited from abroad - who were unaware of the school and area.

Housing in Essex is expensive but we do not receive the outer or inner weighting, which you do in London. When I moved to Essex from North London I took a pay cut. Even the outstanding Secondary schools around here are struggling for staff - though I am not sure about the Grammar schools, I will ask my friends when I next see them if they are fully staffed for next year at the Boys' Grammar. When I recently met up with friends who still work in London, at outstanding State schools, they said the recruitment crisis is becoming more of an issue there too.

They are sometimes on a HLTA so slightly higher pay but still peanuts. It is outrageous.

I think you need to get more clarification on this before going in all guns blazing.
There are TAs who have additional qualifications to deliver teaching to a class, when the lesson has been planned by a qualified teacher.

personally I’d be more interested in whether my child is happy in school, well supported, achieving, meeting their potential. And that as a parent I was supporting them in the best way I can. Qualifications are not the be all and end all. At my daughters school the HLTA that covers in her class is very experienced- and my daughter adores her.

Most TA's have more experience than qualifications. My relative often bemoans lack of teachers at the school she teaches in. All down to available money. It's nothing new, she was moaning even when Labour were in government. Education is expensive, like it or not.