Staying at home with kids IS a contribution and it is also WORK

[carshaker]

A lot of people don't respect a mum who's ' just at home '. Like she's not really contributing to the family.

The reality is though, that it's very much a big contribution, even if it's not financial.

If you took away the financial risk of staying home long term, what's the issue with it? Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ?

If this is a woman's choice, what's the issue ?

Ime most men, unless called out, are equally shit at picking up more regardless of whether their partners are SAHMs or work.

It's not called the "second shift" for nothing.

And it has very little to do with women's low standards or their failure. Women can only do so much while men's standards for themselves are in the gutter.

Surely this is based on the sexist assumption that SAHM do not earn decent salaries?

I understand that for some people it works out financially the same or better, if one parent stays at home rather than paying childcare, especially if you have 2 or more children close in age. However, there are plenty of women that do have decent careers/salaries, that choose to become SAHM. Some do not ever return to work by choice. It's also not a case of furthering their husbands career- that's just a load of rubbish.

Being a SAHM IS hardwork and a beneficial contribution to the family, especially in the early years. However, I think the judgement comes when people refer to being SAHM as their job or being a full time mum, or that its harder than juggling parenthood/work. It's not a job, you are caring for your own children/managing the household, and are fortunate to be able to stay at home with them. IMO the only person that needs to respect you being a SAHM is your working partner.

Whether you are a SAHM or work part-time/full-time, I really don't understand the need for validation for caring for your own family? You've had children, they need to be cared for, in the way that works for the family.

I don't expect others to respect me for doing the housework, cooking, and looking after my DC on my days off during the week. Nor do I expect people to respect me for working and having to send my youngest to nursery.

Working mothers really aren’t doing as much as they think they’re doing. Poor kids.

How would that work? Would she and her partner / husband set up a pension for her? Could the person working out of the home still pay into that pension whilst receiving tax relief, or would it have to come out of their post tax income? If the latter then it’s pretty inefficient. Or would they draw up a legally binding document stating that in the event of a split, the earning partner’s pension gets equally divided at the point of retirement? And that person would pay twice as much into it? If the SAHP is relying g on the state pension then that’s no good, they will be in penury in old age.

I feel like your replies pull apart working mums.

Being a full time house keeper/ cook / cleaner and mum is way more taxing and way more work, than having a full time job.

I have been both and my opinion is the opposite to this. When I was a SAHM I could do what I wanted when I wanted. Yes I cleaned, cooked, dedicated 100% to my child, but nothing was time precious. Nothing HAD to be done at such a time apart from the school run. The rest was at my leisure. That's not how jobs work.

Also your comments about being on 24/7. Only a really shit DH would allow that. Why shouldn't they get involved with play/bath/cook a meal sometimes etc etc. Us working mums come home from work and get stuck straight into the daily things. We just use our 24 hours in a different way!

Why should taxpayers make it possible for a parent to stay at home. If you want to, it’s up to you to make it work financially. Funded professional childcare is available as it benefits the child and parents.

It’s every dickhead that says ‘poor kids’ about working mothers that fuels the fire against SAHMs and their attitudes about being superior parents.

Indeed.

I said FOR ME anyway.

I'm a working mum. I don't want to pull anyone apart.

Both sides deserve respect. We don't give enough respect to stay at home mums in my opinion.

It's simple really

If you stay at home - you are a bad mother you are giving a bad example

If you work full time - you are a bad mother other and giving a bad example

If you work part time- you are a bad mother and giving a bad example

Dad- bless you. You are trying your best what ever you choose to do.

I have no problem with women choosing to remain with their children and find this completely valid if it works financially. Go for it if it works for you.

But I honesty have contempt for people justifying it on the grounds of “facilitating my husband’s career”. How pathetic that a man needs a “facilitator” to run his life.

I have built a very successful career as a single mother without having a “facilitator”. I did this through necessity and with the help of a lot of investment in childcare are a lot of hard hard work. And it’s sometimes been painful and guilt inducing. And I have been on the receiving end of a lot of snide comments from colleagues about working from home because I had to pick up my kid and didn’t have a “facilitator” to do it for me. But I have done it on my own anyway.

If single parents can manage this without a “facilitator” I am sure the average man can pull his big boy pants up and do it.

Absolutely be a SAHM if it works for you but please stop pandering to the idea that everyone with a career needs to have someone at home “facilitating”. This mindset may suit your narrative but it does women like me a massive disservice.

@CrispieCake yes a lot of men are shit I agree. That won't change when women assume and expect other women/themselves to actually do it all.

OP's opinion is that SAHM should do all/most of the stuff in the home. That's a failure in her thinking, not a testament that being a SAHM is work.

It IS both of those things. 😵‍💫

This is a pretty narrow minded view of the workplace. There are many jobs out there where ‘presenteeism’ is pretty unavoidable. When I’m not a SAHM, I’m a vet. My DH is a consultant. Sometimes one just has to accept that having everything in life - working full time in a demanding career, having very young children and maintaining some degree of mental health - is not always possible.

Yup.

But it's the investment and resource required for the training that is usually the barrier to entry, both for the individual and society in general. It isn't necessarily viable to always just train more people.

Is it really feasible or even desirable for the brain surgeon to work 30 hours a week so that their partner can work in WH Smith for 30 hours too? What benefit does that deliver to society versus the brain surgeon working 40-50 hours and the other partner taking on more of the childcare and domestic load? We have different talents, abilities and potential and it makes as a society that you seek to maximise those with the most in demand skill sets rather than make sure everyone is utilised absolutely equally in everything.

The answer to that depends on how you view parenting and whether there is a benefit to society in the next generations being parented by their actual parent for most of the time. I suppose the answer to this might include health outcomes, educational outcomes and then further down the line what that may add or detract from that person’s contribution to society. Impossible to quantify really as so many moving pieces in life. I still think it should be a viable choice to be a stay at home parent if one chooses. I won’t go into it here but there is research available as to the positive or negative impacts on a child of nursery/childcare settings. It’s for each to look into it and make their own decisions.

OP you keep banging on about respect but what does it mean? Who's the 'we' here? What specific actions does 'giving respect' involve?

Tell me everything you're doing that a working mum isn't.

Not at all. I loath housework and find young children achingly dull, plus hard work. Give me a nice juicy contract fight any day!

It’s all pretty precarious as an argument though, I left my job because we couldn’t afford childcare because we had so many children, others do because the places they choose to leave their children are too expensive. All choices because of provledge in the end (IHATE saying that but it is true) We’re not really contributing to society when it comes down to it either financially or in general we’re contributing to an easier way of living for our family (the children of which may or may not contribute to society).

I went back to work a few years ago and it made me appreciate both sides, juggling is insanely difficult but being a sahp and getting no recognition, having people tell you you should feel lucky all the time, being expected to have everything just so by your family and not having your own stability/ pot is so hard.

This is interesting analysis

Someone upthread mentioned SAHMs cooking from scratch. As a working mum I always cook from scratch.

There may a difference between a carbonara I can get on the table in 20 minutes and a lasagne that would only be possible if I was at home - but does it really matter in the wider scheme of things if children are fed with good nutritious food?

In the end, what you do for your own family is valued by them, not anyone else. Important to make our peace with that.

Great post and I completely agree. In fact I wonder if you’re the (fantastic) CEO at the company I work for!

It is an absolutely shit set up for society as a whole to have a model where men completely wash their hands of their own children and home life. I have a very very good job and still do masses for DS, he’s my first priority.

I have men in my team (so the rung below me) who are in the office for hours and I’m sure their wives believe that they can’t do their Big Job and also make the dinner occasionally. It’s bollocks. I allow lots of flexibility and the women tend to use it to get home to see their children or whatever. The men tend to use it to go to the gym for the afternoon and then get home after bedtime. No skin off my nose work wise but I’d be annoyed if it was my husband!

Im not even slightly anti SAHP by the way! My DH doesn’t work and I benefit from that of course (although because I actually love spending time with DS I don’t use it as a reason to spend all hours in the office). I’d just welcome an honest discourse around it which doesn’t include a damaging myth that good jobs can only be done when you abdicate all domestic responsibility.

So your post is saying that there is a more positive outcome for children whose parents stayed at home? That is simply not true. Be a SAHM if you like and it suits your family, but don’t think your children will necessarily be better off than children of working parents.

Exactly this. I think at the end of the day you need to block out noise from anyone else and just do what works for your family emotionally and financially. Never gonna get agreement on this topic. I think the only thing that will be agreed on is it is 100% more difficult for the woman than man when it comes to work/life balance.