Staying at home with kids IS a contribution and it is also WORK

[carshaker]

A lot of people don't respect a mum who's ' just at home '. Like she's not really contributing to the family.

The reality is though, that it's very much a big contribution, even if it's not financial.

If you took away the financial risk of staying home long term, what's the issue with it? Why is it considered by many ( especially women ), less than ?

If this is a woman's choice, what's the issue ?

Have you deliberately chosen the phrase ‘into care’ for maximum goad? Do you understand the difference between ‘care’ and ‘childcare’?

@OhTediosity I do see your point here.

If all women worked and therefore enabled their partners and all men in senior roles, to never take time away from work to look after their kids and basically could give their all to their job - that's bad for working women who do sometimes need to put their families above their work.

Really, ideally everyone in the work place, should be able to take time to look after their kids sometimes when necessary and it should be as equally shared as possible.

I work full time btw. But I pick up all the slack at home as my husband is self employed.

In my job it varies, my manager has 3 small kids and he often needs to have time away from work to look after them when they're sick, because his wife is not a stay at home mum.

I think the balance in my company is quite good. It really depends on where you work but I guess you're right, if we are enabling only men to work full time and have no child care responsibilities, then it makes the work place very unbalanced and makes it seem that only the women need to take time off work to look after the kids.

I don't know the answer but I do think women and men should be able to choose what's best for their families.

Perhaps the answer is really with the employers, to provide more flexibility to everyone, male/ female / with kids / without kids.

Um I think that's more to do with the gender pay gap. Society has placed less value on caring careers traditionally fulfilled by women so read into that what you will.

STEM careers pay more than caring ones. I would encourage my DS to aim for a career in STEM over nursing. Ditto if I had a DD.

It’s not just relationship breakdown that is the risk. What if the DH becomes too ill or disabled to work or dies?

When I was a SAHM I was upskilling through studying at home and I did make important contributions to society - they just weren't paid. Whether it be volunteering at the children's school or using my significant shortage area skills to help people in my local area free of charge in a less formal capacity, I made contributions that helped people that I feel very good about. I don't need external validation to feel satisfied that I have been able to help people out using my professional knowledge, even if it was invisible.

I don't understand all the hate for child care ?

A lot of nurseries / child minders are fine and good for children in fact.

Often kids who've been in child care are actually well adjusted and advanced.

( this is a generalisation of course and my opinion based on a very small subset of children ) I am by no means saying this is the way things are.

Of course I do, I just didn't think the semantics were that important. Obviously it's something that triggers you though.

Life insurance and income protection insurance, if you can do so.

These threads are often toxic but I’ve found a lot of the posts on this one really insightful. Women are made to feel guilty for working, guilty for not, guilty for pretty much anything, and it shows in the way we disparage each others choices.
The vast majority of us are just doing our best and doing what is right for us and our kids within our situation.

I’ve done a few variations- full time work commuting to London, full time wfh, SAHM for 18 months when kids were 6 and 3, and now wfh just school hours. One consistent across all of those was the feeling of guilt- I should be doing better (either in terms of parenting or financial contribution depending on what I was doing at the time). DH works in London still so is out of the house 7am until 8pm-ish hence me being around for the kids before and after school. But I miss a real challenge at work and hope to give myself a shot at a reinvigorated career at some stage when we’re all ready.

I don't have hate for childcare, it's just not something I chose for my own reasons.

What about preschool?

But to address a gender pay gap, men are going to have to start occupying some of the roles that women are exiting. It is interesting to me that the conversation has been entirely one way.

Many women manage both. And no-one in society at large is going to thank a parent, male or female, for raising their own children.

It’s not work. The satisfaction and appreciation is only going to come from ( hopefully) your own partner and kids.

I have done 3 different jobs and for 2yrs was a stay at home mum. The attitudes of people towards me when I have done each of these roles have been hugely different. It is laughable as I am exactly the same person with the same skills and same level of intelligence. My worst paying role and one of the easiest was the most highly respected and I was frequently asked on tips on how to get the job and treated as though I was extremely clever. My current job is harder and better paid. People have very little respect for it though and think I’m not very clever. I did a very part time course during 1yr of being a SAHM and that was deemed worthy of respect - I have no idea why. A lot of people are ignorant and judgemental about other people’s lives.

" I don't know the answer but I do think women and men should be able to choose what's best for their families" @carshaker - Spot on with that point.

Just a shame that so many times women make themselves the sacrificial lamb for everybody else - then only realise when everyone has moved on - and that includes the children when they leave the nest.

I'm interested to hear from older SAHM's with Adult Children going through the young family cycle, if have raised and advised their daughters to be SAHM's or suggested alternative mixes?

Their lived experience would be helpful context to understand the long term implications either way.

If you aren’t ‘triggered’ by the lazy equating of professional childcare with children being removed from horrendous neglect then I can’t help you. I think it’s one case where ‘semantics’ are very fucking important. What a thing to double down on.

And no-one in society at large is going to thank a parent, male or female, for raising their own children.

I would!

Add up what it would cost a single dad in a full time job to buy

Nanny
Cook
Housekeeper
Launderer
Gardener
Dog walker
Shopper
Chauffeur

Then say it's not contributing

@TheKeatingFive a very interesting point and also extends to society in general.

You see it time and again, even on here where women (rightfully) question why it's almost always the woman staying home/reducing hours or that childcare roles in nurseries are low paid, low regarded roles primarily staffed by women... But if a male does join the nursery staff it's post after post of "well I wouldn't feel comfortable, there's just something off about a man wanting to work with children" and yes that is literally what numerous posts are.

The fact is childcare is criminally undervalued in our society. Stay at home and you're "lazy" "dull" or "not contributing".

Nursery workers are leaving to work at Aldi - like my son's amazing former key worker (a man btw) who was the only one who could calm my child at drop off and encouraged him to come out of his shell. He left because the pay is better for stocking shelves than taking care of young children.

People want/need their (increasingly younger) children in childcare settings longer and longer hours and yet nobody (not parents or government) are willing or able to actually pay for it to be funded properly.

It’s definitely a huge and significant contribution to the family but it comes at the expense of the woman’s career/pension etc. It’s not a choice everyone is comfortable with but at the same time if they are then it’s not an issue. I do worry about women who do this unmarried though.

In a society where many men think caring for their own children or relatives is beneath them ,(and play "spot the nearest woman" to offload these things onto), good luck with getting them to care for other people's.

Good for you. I’m too busy working, raising kids, dealing with extended family, friends, life in general to be thinking about some SAHM or SAHD and what a great job s/he/they must be doing…

This is overblown nonsense though. All the single mums out there who do all of this by themselves as well as working. They don't require all these things, why should men?

Exactly this.

Me too, if the child us raised well and becomes a decent member of society then this benefits us all. An investment in a child is an investment in our society's future.