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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are your in-laws like that too?

103 replies

FrenchMumUK · 27/06/2024 17:55

Dear community of mums,
I'd like to know how you deal with in-laws who cross the line -- I feel like I'm seeing different red flags, but maybe I'm being unreasonable.
At a brunch with my in-laws in Germany, my mother-in-law wanted to give my 9-month-old baby a pretzel and some cake. I refused, saying that pretzels are too salty, and that you don't give salt to a baby before they're one year old, nor sugar before they're 2. She rolled her eyes and asked what the problem was, so I explained "The doctor said so, not me! Salt is bad for the baby's immature kidneys". The aunt of my husband interjected: "But there's salt everywhere anyway!", and my mother-in-law added, "Yes, even in the ready-made purée you give him, there's salt! I explained: "No, we buy an organic, salt-free purée".

The next day, when they had to look after our baby while my husband and I were packing, my in-laws gave baby a piece of pretzel behind my back. I arrived just as he was eating it, was horrified and said "But he mustn't eat salt! It's bad for his kidneys!" My father-in-law retorted that he had removed the grains of salt. I replied that the dough is salty, and that the pretzel itself is cooked in a salty solution. My mother-in-law replied that she sees lots of babies in the street eating pretzels. I told her again (I had already explained this the day before) that it's not before 1 year. On top of that, my father-in-law retorted that our baby will be 1 year old in 3 months, so 3 months less won't change anything, and to add insult to injury my husband said that there's also salt in the bread when we give him crusts to chew on at home. I said "Yes, but not as much salt as in a pretzel". In short, I felt alone against everyone. How can I trust my parents-in-law if their own wishes take precedence over the paediatrician's medical considerations, the baby's health and their daughter-in-law's requests... it's an example of their constant interference, their need to control things and their lack of respect for boundaries. Similarly, when it came to the question of not kissing close to the ears, because for an adult it's already unpleasant, for a baby with fragile little ears it's even more so -- my father-in-law, instead of saying OK, argued endlessly: "But I'm not doing it loudly" (loud enough for me to hear him at the other end of the room), "and it's not that close to the ear. Anyway, it's over now as he's leaving us" (it was just before getting in the car to return to the UK).

Everything I say or do seems to be questioned by one or other of my in-laws:
"Why doesn't baby sleep in a cot? (I'm co-sleeping because I'm breastfeeding him) He would sleep better in a cot.
He needs to learn to sleep without suckling
He needs to learn to nap on his own
He needs to get used to falling asleep without the breast
How can sugar and salt harm him, there's salt in all foods anyway?
He needs to get used to staying in the pram / the car seat, even if he doesn't like it
He needs to learn to eat in his highchair, even if he makes a fuss." Etc etc
It's tiring to constantly hear comments and criticisms on every subject, while they on the other hand don't tolerate me interfering: during our stay, I discreetly removed a plastic aspirin tube from the playpen where our baby was playing, an aspirin tube that my in-laws had put there, and that I had seen baby bite shortly before. I removed it without baby noticing, after he'd dropped it, and explained to my father-in-law that I didn't want baby to eat plastic (he's only got 2 teeth, but he can gnaw on an apple core as effectively as a rabbit!). My father-in-law got annoyed that I interfered, said he had been very careful about the plastic tube, and when I went into the kitchen I could hear him from the kitchen saying to our baby: "You're looking for your tube everywhere, aren't you! Your mum took it! Yes, she took your tube, poor baby!"
5 seconds later he came into the kitchen to bitterly tell me that baby was very frustrated and that he was looking for his plastic tube everywhere because he used it to play music with it and it amused him a lot --- I mean, there were lots of toys in the playpen, I seriously doubt that our baby noticed that the aspirin tube was missing...
My in-laws are quick to criticise things that are none of their business, while they indulge in things that make me jump: letting baby put kitchen roll in his mouth (contains chlorine and formaldehyde), letting him licking their mobile phones, a plastic tube of aspirin...
In the bedroom where we slept over, my mother-in-law used shortly before our arrival a product on the carpet to clean it, that should not be used with a baby under 1.

On 2 occasions, my father-in-law practically blamed me for coming into the living room where he was playing with our baby. The baby squealed when he saw me and crawled towards me. My father-in-law said reproachfully, "Oh, he was so happy and we were having so much fun, but if mummy comes, of course..." I almost apologised for having entered the room where my son was.

They're really stifling parents, meddling in everything, having their say on absolutely everything, and criticising easily.
My parents had come from France to Germany to rent a B&B nearby, in order to see their grandson while we were visiting my German in-laws. Before they returned to France, my parents wanted to see us and the baby one last time on the day of their departure. We had a wedding planned for that morning, which wasn't very practical, but when we said good night that evening, we agreed to meet again the next morning in one way or another to say one last time goodbye. My husband and I were discussing afterwards what would be the most practical, he preferred that my parents drop by here before we left for the wedding, I found that too stressful and preferred that we meet my parents discreetly in the street during the wedding by slipping away for 5-10 minutes, which my husband didn't want to do out of respect for the bride and groom. He said "OK, how about we say that the farewell took place tonight, and that we won't be seeing your parents again tomorrow?" For some reason, my mother-in-law chimed in: "Yes, when I heard your parents's offer for tomorrow, I thought it wouldn't be practical for you to see them again tomorrow morning just before the wedding, you should have said so loud and clear when it came to it", to which I replied: "I was busy with the baby who was crying, I didn't think about it at the time, and anyway, 'you should have' 'you should have' well now it's too late, we agreed". She insisted: "Too late? Why is it too late? You pick up your phone and tell your parents that tomorrow is too stressful, and that you consider the goodbyes to have taken place tonight". At this point I had to control myself to remain polite... A) this was none of her business and B) she would have been extremely upset if the roles were reversed and we had done something like this to her. I said that my parents were delighted to see their grandson again before they left, that I couldn't do that to them, that I'd sneak out of the wedding for 5-10 minutes like when you go to the toilet and that it wouldn't be the end of the world.

And that's all there is to it, interfering again and again on every possible subject -- for years while I was battling SIBO and trying different diets to combat the disease, my mother-in-law was constantly criticising and questioning my approach, even though she had no idea whatsoever about either nutrition or the disease.
Every week, my father-in-law calls his son (my husband), and if it's while we're watching a film, he has to interrupt the film to take the call.
Before moving to the UK with my husband, I lived with him in Germany for 3 years. We lived 2hrs 40mins drive from my in-laws. We spent every weekend with them for 3 years. Every. F#cking. Weekend. From Friday evening to Sunday afternoon. I never managed to get my husband to let us spend just one weekend out of two. Moving to the UK has been an indescribable relief. It saved my sanity and our marriage -- in Germany, after 2 years of putting up with a sort of 3-way marriage with my in-laws, I'd ended up wondering whether I wouldn't be better off going back home to France. Unfortunately, my husband's work contract ends in a year, and I'm completely panicking. Neither time nor distance has changed anything in the domineering attitude of my in-laws, and I've spent more than one sleepless night at the prospect of moving back to Germany and returning to the suffocating cage that are my in-laws. They are immensely generous, incredibly helpful, I know we can count on them if we need anything, but isn't this a way of making the cage gilded? My husband doesn't want to extend his contract because he misses his family and friends. I feel like a barked animal at the prospect of returning to a way of life I thought I'd finally escaped by migrating to the UK. Is that how it is with in-laws? Or are mine particularly stifling? What would you do? Thank you so much for reading all the way through.

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 29/06/2024 20:37

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 20:36

@Cherrysoup salut, merci pour ton message :) yes, I offered this option, living in France, especially as my parents have an empty holiday house where we coule live, in a region that he loves, but he says it's not a viable option as his level of French is not good enough to get him a job. I'm a tour guide, I'd never earn enough to support a family of 3

Donc, what would happen if you refuse to live near his family? Does he not support you when they’re being painful?

macaroniandcheeze · 29/06/2024 20:43

Didn’t read the whole thing sorry but no you are not being unreasonable, no salt before 1 and no sugar (eg sugary treats such as sweets, cake, biscuits) before 2 is fine. I did the same with the first born, she had chocolate aged 2 for the first time. (NB, Not so easy with a second born who snatches biscuits out of the older sister’s hand!)

Your in-laws are a bit controlling and a bit annoying, so no you’re not being unreasonable but you might have to chill out a little bit and pick and choose your battles otherwise your relationship will get worse, but the baby rules are non negotiable - your baby your rules.

Heyln · 29/06/2024 20:50

I would hate to be in your position. You are completely right to feel the way you do. There is no need for them to constantly make little comments belittling you as a parent and going against your wishes, disregarding anything you say. I don't understand the other commenters saying you're overprotective and being neurotic etc. It's not even about the pretzel..its the fact they ignore what you say and question everything and take over. Little things pile up over time and no wonder you feel the way you do now. It's absolutely ridiculous to travel to stay with them every weekend for years. You need a serious conversation with your husband about boundaries and he needs to be on your side or you will feel more and more resentful until you explode.

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 20:57

Cherrysoup · 29/06/2024 20:37

Donc, what would happen if you refuse to live near his family? Does he not support you when they’re being painful?

He says he'll look for a job in another region (Bundesland). But the regions that he has in mind are no further away from his home village than the city where he lived before coming to the UK, and from which we made the trip every weekend to visit his parents. So a 2 to 3 hour drive is no guarantee of peace and quiet...
As for the salt, he didn't want to put himself at odds with his parents. But regarding the unpleasant kisses close to the ear, we're on the same wavelength.
He loves the region of France where my parents have a holiday house, I'll try to improve his French within a year so the language barrier is no excuse anymore

OP posts:
Cherrysoup · 29/06/2024 21:01

Brilliant idea, @FrenchMumUK Are you speaking only French with your child? Then if he goes to school in Germany, he will be fluent in both languages.

I think you need a big discussion with your husband, including telling him that you aren’t prepared to travel every weekend. You might be better to live near them and be very clear about boundaries. They don’t get to spend time with le petit if they can’t follow your rules, he’s your child, not theirs.

JudgeJ · 29/06/2024 21:06

TwattyMcFuckFace · 27/06/2024 18:25

Sorry, I kind of gave up just over halfway through.

Does your husband back you up?

Are Fathers not allowed a different opinion regarding his baby? Does the Mother back him up?

Coralsunset · 29/06/2024 21:09

What would he say if you refused to leave UK?

This man has shown you he doesn’t have your back. If you move back to any place in Germany and then split up, you’ll be stuck living there. Unless you leave without your child of course. I can’t emphasise enough what a bad idea this would be

ricestardust · 29/06/2024 21:10

Srsly, smh. Your spouse wants to live with his parents, not you. Baby has two sets of grandparents. The German grandparents aren't automatically the default.

Je ne parle pas français trés bien mais, si un rason importante comme mon mari et mon bébé, je pouvais apprender le langue plus bien.

Apologies for the truly awful French and messed up grammar. Haven't used it since high school. But... didn't you have to speak German in Germany for him and his parents? Why can't he cope with speaking French?? His fluency would naturally improve if y'all lived in France. Does he not manage English in the UK? You and baby should motivate him hugely. (Baby is surely being raised trilingual. I guess you and baby will eventually be excluding dad from any French convos if dad only wants to speak German all the time.)

Your parents have a spare house for you. He knows the region. You've already spent years living in your in-laws pockets. Turnabout is fair play. If he wants to leave Britain, you deserve to go to France rather than Germany. Treat him to 3 years of spending all your weekends with your parents so baby can spend lots of time with the French grandparents. (Well, don't really. But, he kinda deserves the thought. And you deserve something for 3 years of his parents every weekend.)

aloris · 29/06/2024 21:29

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 19:33

So, my husband mentioned this evening that we'll be leaving Britain next year, and I took the opportunity to talk about the possibility of extending our stay here and finding maybe a better-paid job in a region where housing is affordable. I also mentioned that the climate here is extremely pleasant, and that the British are some of the friendliest people in the world. To top it all off, I added, here we have our peace and quiet, our parents can't interfere... He immediately replied that our son had to grow up with his grandparents, that they had lots of things to teach him, that he himself had grown up with his grandparents (they lived in the same village) and he had experienced lots of things with them, and that besides, if we needed help our parents would be next door, and vice versa, if they needed help we'd be there. Upon hearing that, I felt my heart speed up and I felt so weak... you can't base your future, your life, on your parents, can you?

Some of your rules seem a bit neurotic but it's your baby, not your in-laws' baby, that means you get to make the rules, along with your husband. But your bigger issue is that your husband is still tied to his parents' apron strings, and that your in-laws are suffocating and controlling. Going to their house every single weekend for years was completely over the top.

What strikes me in your post is that when you addressed your husband's desire to move back, you went about it in a very indirect way, talking about how the climate here is pleasant, British people are friendly, etc. Why are you so afraid to just say, straight out, "Having to spend every weekend with your parents was extremely stifling for me and in my opinion very unreasonable and selfish on your part. I do not want to move back there because we'll just return to the same thing and I will be absolutely miserable. It's not happening so we need to discuss alternatives."

Candlesandmatches · 29/06/2024 21:43

I have some experience of the every weekend visit. We did it when DS1 was a baby. It was ‘expected’ because that was how my DH had grown up. Except it was a shorter drive and was 1.5-2 hours one way. It was always us driving to them and not the other way round. Once DH was so tired he feel asleep at traffic lights.
When I was pregnant with DS2 I made my position very clear. it was too exhausting and I was not visiting every weekend. They could come and see us. But they would have to make and strip their own beds. If DH wanted to take DS1 he could. But I would not be going every time. I was polite but firm. I was not going every weekend.
Surprisingly he saw sense.
This is your family - you, DH and your child. And it doesn’t have to be a replication of his childhood. After all it isn’t a replication of yours is it? Why is his families way of doing things the ‘right way’
Maybe that will help him see that he isn’t being reasonable.
You have my massive sympathies.

saraclara · 29/06/2024 21:50

JudgeJ · 29/06/2024 21:06

Are Fathers not allowed a different opinion regarding his baby? Does the Mother back him up?

Heavens, @JudgeJ ! Such heresy! This is Mumsnet and you're treading dangerously! 🤣

Purpleday1 · 30/06/2024 10:33

OP,
You are very clear on the issues tha are affecting you.
Your husband is enmeshed with his parents.

You have now been told clearly that if you return with your baby to the area where his parents live, you could be prevented from leaving with your baby if the relationship cracks under the pressure.
Remember that, prevented from living elsewhere.

You would be silly to move anywhere near his family.
Do not be bullied.
You will bitterly regret it.

FrenchMumUK · 30/06/2024 21:00

Coralsunset · 29/06/2024 21:09

What would he say if you refused to leave UK?

This man has shown you he doesn’t have your back. If you move back to any place in Germany and then split up, you’ll be stuck living there. Unless you leave without your child of course. I can’t emphasise enough what a bad idea this would be

@Coralsunset he would say the situation here in GB is not sustainable, we don't have any money left at the end of the month, which was not the case in Germany... from a financial point of view, life over there was more comfortable, that is true. But here in GB we can breathe at last, well, I mean, I can. Thank you for pointing out that no matter where we live in Germany, if things go south because of his overbearing family, I'll be stuck in this country. I hadn't thought about this eventuality.

OP posts:
FrenchMumUK · 30/06/2024 21:09

ricestardust · 29/06/2024 21:10

Srsly, smh. Your spouse wants to live with his parents, not you. Baby has two sets of grandparents. The German grandparents aren't automatically the default.

Je ne parle pas français trés bien mais, si un rason importante comme mon mari et mon bébé, je pouvais apprender le langue plus bien.

Apologies for the truly awful French and messed up grammar. Haven't used it since high school. But... didn't you have to speak German in Germany for him and his parents? Why can't he cope with speaking French?? His fluency would naturally improve if y'all lived in France. Does he not manage English in the UK? You and baby should motivate him hugely. (Baby is surely being raised trilingual. I guess you and baby will eventually be excluding dad from any French convos if dad only wants to speak German all the time.)

Your parents have a spare house for you. He knows the region. You've already spent years living in your in-laws pockets. Turnabout is fair play. If he wants to leave Britain, you deserve to go to France rather than Germany. Treat him to 3 years of spending all your weekends with your parents so baby can spend lots of time with the French grandparents. (Well, don't really. But, he kinda deserves the thought. And you deserve something for 3 years of his parents every weekend.)

@ricestardust the mistakes are minor, your sentence in French is perfectly understandable! Thank you for the touch of humour about treating darling husband to 3 years of spending all our weekends with my parents as a retaliation ^^ I'll definitely try to speak exclusively french at home now, in order to improve his level, so that the language won't be a barrier anymore preventing him from looking for work in France.

OP posts:
FrenchMumUK · 30/06/2024 21:25

aloris · 29/06/2024 21:29

Some of your rules seem a bit neurotic but it's your baby, not your in-laws' baby, that means you get to make the rules, along with your husband. But your bigger issue is that your husband is still tied to his parents' apron strings, and that your in-laws are suffocating and controlling. Going to their house every single weekend for years was completely over the top.

What strikes me in your post is that when you addressed your husband's desire to move back, you went about it in a very indirect way, talking about how the climate here is pleasant, British people are friendly, etc. Why are you so afraid to just say, straight out, "Having to spend every weekend with your parents was extremely stifling for me and in my opinion very unreasonable and selfish on your part. I do not want to move back there because we'll just return to the same thing and I will be absolutely miserable. It's not happening so we need to discuss alternatives."

@aloris Ha! Why am I so afraid to just say, straight out, "Having to spend every weekend with your parents [...]" This is a very good question. Several reasons, I guess...
My shy nature probably - I'm used to preferring diplomacy and avoiding conflict at all costs.
Then, my fear that something that direct would achieve the opposite goal: it could put him off, give him the feeling that I'm trying to cut him off from his parents, and by reaction, push him further into their arms.
Last but not least, the fact that the whole family (his parents, his brother, his uncles, his aunts, all living in the same village or village next door) is waiting for his return to Germany, and they would absolutely hate me if he said that we're not coming back because I don't want to...
I thought highlighting the advantages of the UK would be a more subtle way to try & convince him to stay here...
I really like your message ("I do not want to move back there because we'll just return to the same thing and I will be absolutely miserable. It's not happening so we need to discuss alternatives"), it would never ever have occurred to me to say something as direct & as firm. This is good. I'll translate it into German and I'll use it if none of the other options work.

OP posts:
Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 30/06/2024 21:28

I'd have let the baby eat a bit of pretzel. I think you're all unreasonable

Hungrycaterpillarsmummy · 30/06/2024 21:30

Definitely do not move to near them

FrenchMumUK · 30/06/2024 21:33

Candlesandmatches · 29/06/2024 21:43

I have some experience of the every weekend visit. We did it when DS1 was a baby. It was ‘expected’ because that was how my DH had grown up. Except it was a shorter drive and was 1.5-2 hours one way. It was always us driving to them and not the other way round. Once DH was so tired he feel asleep at traffic lights.
When I was pregnant with DS2 I made my position very clear. it was too exhausting and I was not visiting every weekend. They could come and see us. But they would have to make and strip their own beds. If DH wanted to take DS1 he could. But I would not be going every time. I was polite but firm. I was not going every weekend.
Surprisingly he saw sense.
This is your family - you, DH and your child. And it doesn’t have to be a replication of his childhood. After all it isn’t a replication of yours is it? Why is his families way of doing things the ‘right way’
Maybe that will help him see that he isn’t being reasonable.
You have my massive sympathies.

Edited

@Candlesandmatches oh wow... you had to live the same nightmare as me... And what's more, with a baby! I would have gone crazy. It was very selfish of your in-laws to put you through such an ordeal with a baby. I'm glad your husband saw sense in the end. I doubt mine will... at some point, after some abdominal surgery, I stopped going to his parents' several weekends in a row, so he went without me. When I finally joined him again for the traditional visit, his mother greeted me with "Oh! Who is this stranger?" Not even hello or anything.

OP posts:
FrenchMumUK · 30/06/2024 21:40

Purpleday1 · 30/06/2024 10:33

OP,
You are very clear on the issues tha are affecting you.
Your husband is enmeshed with his parents.

You have now been told clearly that if you return with your baby to the area where his parents live, you could be prevented from leaving with your baby if the relationship cracks under the pressure.
Remember that, prevented from living elsewhere.

You would be silly to move anywhere near his family.
Do not be bullied.
You will bitterly regret it.

@Purpleday1 you are absolutely right. That would be like throwing myself into the lion's den. I wasn't aware at all of the risk of not being able to leave the country if the relationship cracks under the pressure of his family, I'm so glad you and others mentioned it! I definitely don't want to run the risk of being stuck there / letting them ruin our marriage.

OP posts:
FrenchMumUK · 30/06/2024 21:49

I'd like to thank everyone who has shown kindness, who has taken the time to analyse the situation and give me sound advice, particularly regarding the Hague Convention, of which existence I was totally unaware. This is indeed a determining factor, I definitely don't want to run the risk of being trapped in Germany if the situation becomes explosive & our marriage cracks under the pressure from my in-laws

OP posts:
Skybluepinky · 30/06/2024 22:07

Sound like both u and them have issues that need addressing.

Whothefuckdoesthat · 30/06/2024 22:40

Re him wanting your children to grow up with his grandparents, you need to point out to him that if he insists on going back to the same part of Germany and having the same level of involvement with his family, then they still won’t be growing up with their grandparents because you will be divorcing him and The Hague Convention means that the children will be staying in the UK, with you. You won’t let it get as far as relocating the children because you know that your marriage will definitely crack under that pressure.

Tell him ‘I love your parents and I want them involved in our lives. I want our children to have a good relationship with them. But I will not be spending all of our weekends with them, in the same way I would not expect you to spend every weekend with my family. I cannot cope with their constant opinions on everything, as you would not cope with the same from my family. What is the point in me discussing anything with you? I might as well go straight to your parents and get your feelings straight from their mouths. I do not trust them to listen to what we have decided is best for our child. I do not trust you to stand up to your parents if they are insisting on doing something that we have decided not to do. What was the point in us creating our own family? There is no room for us because you are clinging on so tightly to your parents. It is time for a choice to be made’.

Purpleday1 · 30/06/2024 22:55

Do not think for one minute he and his family would not prevent your child from leaving.
Imagine getting stuck there and needing HIS permission to visit your family in France?
Give that some thought.
You will be putting yourself in enormous peril agreeing to move back.
In your situation, send him home.
Move back to france to your family and take some time and space.
18 years is a long time to be controlled.
I do not see your marriage surviving his passive aggressive pain in the ass mother.
Talk to your parents quietly.
Make your decision quietly.
But under no circumstances agree to move.

andfinallyhereweare · 01/07/2024 01:12

tldr but a little bit of salt will be fine but you are the mum and they should respect your wishes. All involved sound high strung and need to relax a bit.

Whothefuckdoesthat · 01/07/2024 06:04

Actually, I wouldn’t mention The Hague Convention to him at all. Just tell him you’re not willing to to settle in Germany. Otherwise he’ll agree to anything to get you out there and settled and then, boom, you’re trapped there.