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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are your in-laws like that too?

103 replies

FrenchMumUK · 27/06/2024 17:55

Dear community of mums,
I'd like to know how you deal with in-laws who cross the line -- I feel like I'm seeing different red flags, but maybe I'm being unreasonable.
At a brunch with my in-laws in Germany, my mother-in-law wanted to give my 9-month-old baby a pretzel and some cake. I refused, saying that pretzels are too salty, and that you don't give salt to a baby before they're one year old, nor sugar before they're 2. She rolled her eyes and asked what the problem was, so I explained "The doctor said so, not me! Salt is bad for the baby's immature kidneys". The aunt of my husband interjected: "But there's salt everywhere anyway!", and my mother-in-law added, "Yes, even in the ready-made purée you give him, there's salt! I explained: "No, we buy an organic, salt-free purée".

The next day, when they had to look after our baby while my husband and I were packing, my in-laws gave baby a piece of pretzel behind my back. I arrived just as he was eating it, was horrified and said "But he mustn't eat salt! It's bad for his kidneys!" My father-in-law retorted that he had removed the grains of salt. I replied that the dough is salty, and that the pretzel itself is cooked in a salty solution. My mother-in-law replied that she sees lots of babies in the street eating pretzels. I told her again (I had already explained this the day before) that it's not before 1 year. On top of that, my father-in-law retorted that our baby will be 1 year old in 3 months, so 3 months less won't change anything, and to add insult to injury my husband said that there's also salt in the bread when we give him crusts to chew on at home. I said "Yes, but not as much salt as in a pretzel". In short, I felt alone against everyone. How can I trust my parents-in-law if their own wishes take precedence over the paediatrician's medical considerations, the baby's health and their daughter-in-law's requests... it's an example of their constant interference, their need to control things and their lack of respect for boundaries. Similarly, when it came to the question of not kissing close to the ears, because for an adult it's already unpleasant, for a baby with fragile little ears it's even more so -- my father-in-law, instead of saying OK, argued endlessly: "But I'm not doing it loudly" (loud enough for me to hear him at the other end of the room), "and it's not that close to the ear. Anyway, it's over now as he's leaving us" (it was just before getting in the car to return to the UK).

Everything I say or do seems to be questioned by one or other of my in-laws:
"Why doesn't baby sleep in a cot? (I'm co-sleeping because I'm breastfeeding him) He would sleep better in a cot.
He needs to learn to sleep without suckling
He needs to learn to nap on his own
He needs to get used to falling asleep without the breast
How can sugar and salt harm him, there's salt in all foods anyway?
He needs to get used to staying in the pram / the car seat, even if he doesn't like it
He needs to learn to eat in his highchair, even if he makes a fuss." Etc etc
It's tiring to constantly hear comments and criticisms on every subject, while they on the other hand don't tolerate me interfering: during our stay, I discreetly removed a plastic aspirin tube from the playpen where our baby was playing, an aspirin tube that my in-laws had put there, and that I had seen baby bite shortly before. I removed it without baby noticing, after he'd dropped it, and explained to my father-in-law that I didn't want baby to eat plastic (he's only got 2 teeth, but he can gnaw on an apple core as effectively as a rabbit!). My father-in-law got annoyed that I interfered, said he had been very careful about the plastic tube, and when I went into the kitchen I could hear him from the kitchen saying to our baby: "You're looking for your tube everywhere, aren't you! Your mum took it! Yes, she took your tube, poor baby!"
5 seconds later he came into the kitchen to bitterly tell me that baby was very frustrated and that he was looking for his plastic tube everywhere because he used it to play music with it and it amused him a lot --- I mean, there were lots of toys in the playpen, I seriously doubt that our baby noticed that the aspirin tube was missing...
My in-laws are quick to criticise things that are none of their business, while they indulge in things that make me jump: letting baby put kitchen roll in his mouth (contains chlorine and formaldehyde), letting him licking their mobile phones, a plastic tube of aspirin...
In the bedroom where we slept over, my mother-in-law used shortly before our arrival a product on the carpet to clean it, that should not be used with a baby under 1.

On 2 occasions, my father-in-law practically blamed me for coming into the living room where he was playing with our baby. The baby squealed when he saw me and crawled towards me. My father-in-law said reproachfully, "Oh, he was so happy and we were having so much fun, but if mummy comes, of course..." I almost apologised for having entered the room where my son was.

They're really stifling parents, meddling in everything, having their say on absolutely everything, and criticising easily.
My parents had come from France to Germany to rent a B&B nearby, in order to see their grandson while we were visiting my German in-laws. Before they returned to France, my parents wanted to see us and the baby one last time on the day of their departure. We had a wedding planned for that morning, which wasn't very practical, but when we said good night that evening, we agreed to meet again the next morning in one way or another to say one last time goodbye. My husband and I were discussing afterwards what would be the most practical, he preferred that my parents drop by here before we left for the wedding, I found that too stressful and preferred that we meet my parents discreetly in the street during the wedding by slipping away for 5-10 minutes, which my husband didn't want to do out of respect for the bride and groom. He said "OK, how about we say that the farewell took place tonight, and that we won't be seeing your parents again tomorrow?" For some reason, my mother-in-law chimed in: "Yes, when I heard your parents's offer for tomorrow, I thought it wouldn't be practical for you to see them again tomorrow morning just before the wedding, you should have said so loud and clear when it came to it", to which I replied: "I was busy with the baby who was crying, I didn't think about it at the time, and anyway, 'you should have' 'you should have' well now it's too late, we agreed". She insisted: "Too late? Why is it too late? You pick up your phone and tell your parents that tomorrow is too stressful, and that you consider the goodbyes to have taken place tonight". At this point I had to control myself to remain polite... A) this was none of her business and B) she would have been extremely upset if the roles were reversed and we had done something like this to her. I said that my parents were delighted to see their grandson again before they left, that I couldn't do that to them, that I'd sneak out of the wedding for 5-10 minutes like when you go to the toilet and that it wouldn't be the end of the world.

And that's all there is to it, interfering again and again on every possible subject -- for years while I was battling SIBO and trying different diets to combat the disease, my mother-in-law was constantly criticising and questioning my approach, even though she had no idea whatsoever about either nutrition or the disease.
Every week, my father-in-law calls his son (my husband), and if it's while we're watching a film, he has to interrupt the film to take the call.
Before moving to the UK with my husband, I lived with him in Germany for 3 years. We lived 2hrs 40mins drive from my in-laws. We spent every weekend with them for 3 years. Every. F#cking. Weekend. From Friday evening to Sunday afternoon. I never managed to get my husband to let us spend just one weekend out of two. Moving to the UK has been an indescribable relief. It saved my sanity and our marriage -- in Germany, after 2 years of putting up with a sort of 3-way marriage with my in-laws, I'd ended up wondering whether I wouldn't be better off going back home to France. Unfortunately, my husband's work contract ends in a year, and I'm completely panicking. Neither time nor distance has changed anything in the domineering attitude of my in-laws, and I've spent more than one sleepless night at the prospect of moving back to Germany and returning to the suffocating cage that are my in-laws. They are immensely generous, incredibly helpful, I know we can count on them if we need anything, but isn't this a way of making the cage gilded? My husband doesn't want to extend his contract because he misses his family and friends. I feel like a barked animal at the prospect of returning to a way of life I thought I'd finally escaped by migrating to the UK. Is that how it is with in-laws? Or are mine particularly stifling? What would you do? Thank you so much for reading all the way through.

OP posts:
pizzaHeart · 28/06/2024 16:25

FrenchMumUK · 28/06/2024 10:49

I have no idea how to reply to each person individually. Kudos to those of you who read till the end... It was a terribly long post, I do apologise. I guess my written diarrhoea is due to the panic at the prospect of moving back to Germany. I do like my in-laws. They are good people. What I do not like is their crossing boundaries, preaching, & interfering on topics that are none of their business. German pretzels are really salty compared to bread, hence my concern as the pediatrician had insisted on no salt. I didn't raise my voice, shouted or anything when I saw that my in-laws had gone behind my back to give pretzel to baby. Had it been my parents who had done that, I would not have shown the same restraint in my reaction.
Concerning the request not to let baby chew on kitchen roll, I asked timidly, again, I never tell them off or anything.
Why my parents were there at the same time: our two families had never met, so this was the opportunity for them to meet each other and see their grandson at the same time.

Edited

Your parents didn’t met them before? It’s a bit strange.
Are you married? Sorry that I’m asking but if you are not - it might change the legal side. If you are married- didn’t they met each other at your wedding?

Himawarigirl · 28/06/2024 16:52

A lot of the stuff up front in your post as a lot of it sounds overly controlling and paranoid re the baby or small issues that have irritated you and now play on your mind. But I totally get it. The small drip, drip of not getting on with people or constantly feeling at odds and out of control is super frustrating. But the big bit is hidden towards the end, with all three days of every weekend spent with them for 3 years. They could be the loveliest people in the world and that would still be too much. Therefore it doesn’t sound workable to return to Germany and spend so much time with them, you’ll go insane. But you and your husband need to work through that. I’m not sure what to suggest.

Ejvd · 28/06/2024 21:23

You have been accused of being "neurotic". So what?! Your baby, your rules! They have had their turn to raise children, and now it is your turn; and you are armed with more modern, accessible knowledge.

They need to bite their tongue, even if they don't agree with your preferences for your child. You are not rude enough to question other people's parenting choices to their face. Or to interefere with or sabotage their choices. And you should be accorded the same respect by them.

I sympathise with everything you have said. And if you want to avoid chemical exposure for a baby that is your choice. People may discreetly roll their eyes if they want, but they should keep their mouths shut and not give your baby the banned item.

I would be upset too. You can't move back to be near them. You can't have your husband dragging you there every weekend. That is not living a well rounded life, if you cant have control of your weekends! No wonder you were miserable there. And you might not trust them to babysit if they don't respect your wishes, so you won't gain that advantage by being near them. Don't get yourself trapped near them. Once you are stuck in Germany, he can backtrack on promises and start visiting them every weekend again.

Ejvd · 28/06/2024 21:45

Also, just to add. I also don't think that your preferences are crazy/neurotic. You just want to give your baby the best start. And are following health advice. Or reducing exposure to harmful chemicals.

Nextweektoo · 28/06/2024 22:03

I think you all come across as crazy tbf.

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 13:28

pizzaHeart · 28/06/2024 16:19

I went quickly through your post but a few things struck me in it:

  1. every weekend????? F* that . It’s very wrong they should have their own life and you - your own .
  2. my baby - my rules. If grandparents don’t follow my rules - I don’t trust them with my child.
  3. in laws or parents don’t take part in the discussions which are mine and my DH’s business - for this reason I don’t discuss anything like this in front of them.

However saying these you might be wrong in some rules or overreacting but people are different and have different values. I’m very careful with chemicals around babies whatever people are saying, babies are tiny and their immune system is still developing so I don’t like them to come into contact with something nasty even in small amounts.
Don’t move to Germany, You have an issue with your DH. It’s difficult to pinpoint it but there is an issue. It seems that he hasn’t cut his umbilical cord yet. Is he the only child? ( apologies if this was mentioned already) .
Come back here for more specific advice for different issues but don’t move to Germany at this stage, it won’t end rosy.

Edited

@pizzaHeart thank you for your kind message. We are married, our families didn't meet before as we got married during the Corona pandemic, there were just the 2 of us in the town hall. You are right, in the future I need to avoid discussing anything that is none of her business in front of my MIL. And they have definitely lost my trust regarding being left alone with baby.
I had high hopes that spending a few years far away from his home would help my husband and his parents cut the ombilical cord. But I'm forced to admit that it hasn't been the case, and the 14 months we have left to spend here won't be enough to finalise the cord-cutting... so there's every chance that the situation will go back to square one when we return, as if this exile in the UK, which I'd hoped would save the day, had never happened.
No my husband is not an only child, he has a brother who is 3 years older, and whose ombilical cord is even tighter... he is single, lives in a village next to his parents', spends every weekend with them and comes over several times during the week too...

OP posts:
Createausername1970 · 29/06/2024 13:46

I did plough through to the end of the OP.

MIL sounds a pain in the bum but, sorry, so do you.

I accept "your baby your rules" but some of them seem a bit OTT. I understand that babies kidneys can't handle salt, and that it's best avoided. But if the overall diet is good then a bit of pretzel or similar won't be a problem.

I am in agreement about the pill tube. Do not give a baby an empty pill pot to play with. This is not a toy and if they find a full one they will not know any better and will still regard it as a toy, and probably think the contents are sweets. This, I thought, was ridiculous on the part of the ILs.

So on balance I would struggle with both of you.

But I wouldn't be going back to Germany. There is obviously a personality/cultural clash that you were unable to navigate last time, and will only get worse with a child in the mix.

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 13:46

Ejvd · 28/06/2024 21:23

You have been accused of being "neurotic". So what?! Your baby, your rules! They have had their turn to raise children, and now it is your turn; and you are armed with more modern, accessible knowledge.

They need to bite their tongue, even if they don't agree with your preferences for your child. You are not rude enough to question other people's parenting choices to their face. Or to interefere with or sabotage their choices. And you should be accorded the same respect by them.

I sympathise with everything you have said. And if you want to avoid chemical exposure for a baby that is your choice. People may discreetly roll their eyes if they want, but they should keep their mouths shut and not give your baby the banned item.

I would be upset too. You can't move back to be near them. You can't have your husband dragging you there every weekend. That is not living a well rounded life, if you cant have control of your weekends! No wonder you were miserable there. And you might not trust them to babysit if they don't respect your wishes, so you won't gain that advantage by being near them. Don't get yourself trapped near them. Once you are stuck in Germany, he can backtrack on promises and start visiting them every weekend again.

@Ejvd Thank you so much for your kind words. In the country where I come from, WiFi is even forbidden in the nurseries in order to protect babies/toddlers, it looks like we are extremely concerned about the well-being of our children and their health is a top priority.
I agree with you regarding modern knowledge, there are enough studies showing that methods like letting babies cry it out to sleep are not only cruel but totally outdated in the light of what we know about neuroscience.
Absolutely, my in-laws have lost my trust, I would not be able to leave them alone with baby now.
You have pin-pointed it: this is exactly what I fear, that whatever agreement we come up with, it won't stand up to the pressure of the family once we've set foot in Germany...

OP posts:
Screamingabdabz · 29/06/2024 13:55

Your DH should be your advocate here. Why isn’t he?

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 14:00

Screamingabdabz · 29/06/2024 13:55

Your DH should be your advocate here. Why isn’t he?

I was able to totally count on him regarding the kissing near the ear, he stood up to his father on this matter as he found the noise level very unpleasant himself.

OP posts:
FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 14:03

To answer the questions about the product used to clean the carpet: my father-in-law told me as a matter of fact that these products were not suitable for babies under one year old, but he said that the manufacturers write that on the product to protect themselves. I didn't say anything, I just innerly freaked out.
As for kissing close to the ear, try it yourself: ask your partner to give you 6 to 8 kisses in a row close to the ear, loud enough to be heard at the other end of a vast living room. You'll see. Then imagine having to put up with this several times a day without being able to say anything.

OP posts:
GrumpyPanda · 29/06/2024 14:25

Strange story considering aspirin tubes aren't a thing in Germany, all medicine by law having to be sold in blister packs.

Purpleday1 · 29/06/2024 14:36

Every weekend with his parents?
You must have been out of your mind to marry him.
His family sound nightmare-ish, but why are you surprised, you have spent every weekend with them for years.
No way would I be going back to Germany with my baby. You can be prevented from leaving Germany with your baby if your relationship doesn't survive.
No way would I risk it.

TimeGoesBySoSlowlyForThoseWhoWait · 29/06/2024 14:41

Genuinely your baby your rules. If you decided you child couldn’t eat green food for whatever reason you wanted, the fact that as soon as you turn your back they give them green food to overrule you on purpose is telling.

pizzaHeart · 29/06/2024 17:10

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 14:03

To answer the questions about the product used to clean the carpet: my father-in-law told me as a matter of fact that these products were not suitable for babies under one year old, but he said that the manufacturers write that on the product to protect themselves. I didn't say anything, I just innerly freaked out.
As for kissing close to the ear, try it yourself: ask your partner to give you 6 to 8 kisses in a row close to the ear, loud enough to be heard at the other end of a vast living room. You'll see. Then imagine having to put up with this several times a day without being able to say anything.

I agree with the kissing, it might be really unpleasant. I’m okeish with it but my partner hates it.
your updates don’t sound good - I thought it’s just accidental the only child thing but it seems that it’s your in laws personalities. I wouldn’t move there and wouldn’t believe any promises.

twilightsparkleee · 29/06/2024 18:21

I disagree with other posters re you being overprotective! The child is 9 months old how can you not be, you've done everything right. But I've been in your place and understand. You can't change anything, just try to stay calm it's only temporary and not worth spending so much energy proving anything to them.

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 19:33

So, my husband mentioned this evening that we'll be leaving Britain next year, and I took the opportunity to talk about the possibility of extending our stay here and finding maybe a better-paid job in a region where housing is affordable. I also mentioned that the climate here is extremely pleasant, and that the British are some of the friendliest people in the world. To top it all off, I added, here we have our peace and quiet, our parents can't interfere... He immediately replied that our son had to grow up with his grandparents, that they had lots of things to teach him, that he himself had grown up with his grandparents (they lived in the same village) and he had experienced lots of things with them, and that besides, if we needed help our parents would be next door, and vice versa, if they needed help we'd be there. Upon hearing that, I felt my heart speed up and I felt so weak... you can't base your future, your life, on your parents, can you?

OP posts:
Ellie525 · 29/06/2024 19:44

Aside from whether the details you've mentioned about chemicals are anyone's personal parenting thing or not.... the minute you move back to Germany you're stuck, so don't expect to go back and resolve it there. Try and stay here longer and if your DH has to go back maybe consider letting him go alone? Not sure what future holds but once your baby is in Germany with residency and grandparents etc you will have a hell of a fight to take them back/to uk/to your home country should you and DH split...

bluebeck · 29/06/2024 19:47

Right. You absolutely cannot risk moving to Germany. Once you are there you might be stuck due to Hague Convention.

Stay put. Then it’s his problem.

WhatFlavourIsIt · 29/06/2024 20:05

After reading this, I am eagerly waiting for my husband to come home from the pub so he can kiss me 6 - 8 times by my ear just to see how loud he can go

Cherrysoup · 29/06/2024 20:14

I don’t think you should’ve back to Germany and if you must, then nowhere near his parents. You clearly don’t want them overstepping boundaries. Tu peux pas habiter plutôt en France? If he wants grandparents near, then how about living near yours?

saraclara · 29/06/2024 20:20

ThatsMeYoureTalkingAbout · 28/06/2024 12:11

The problem is that you are absolutely neurotic so they aren't listening because you are OTT about everything and it comes across as ridiculous:

If it was one or two things, ie pretzels, then I'm sure they'd be listening!

That. Seriously, if you fuss about every little thing, they're going to end up mocking you. If you kept your boundaries to a couple of sensible ones rather than micromanaging every single action and interaction, they'd take you seriously.

Circumferences · 29/06/2024 20:32

Your husband sounds nuts, you sound ott and obsessive and your in laws sound exasperated.

I'd do them a favour and leave them alone!

Where are your own parents in all this? Why aren't you seeing your own parents with their grandchild??

FrenchMumUK · 29/06/2024 20:36

Cherrysoup · 29/06/2024 20:14

I don’t think you should’ve back to Germany and if you must, then nowhere near his parents. You clearly don’t want them overstepping boundaries. Tu peux pas habiter plutôt en France? If he wants grandparents near, then how about living near yours?

@Cherrysoup salut, merci pour ton message :) yes, I offered this option, living in France, especially as my parents have an empty holiday house where we coule live, in a region that he loves, but he says it's not a viable option as his level of French is not good enough to get him a job. I'm a tour guide, I'd never earn enough to support a family of 3

OP posts:
MumonabikeE5 · 29/06/2024 20:36

I read until it said. When we lived in Germany we spent every weekend with them.
you knew what you were getting into.
surely.
you could see they wouldn’t be hands off parents / grandparents

everything I read before that made me think you were being unreasonable.
understandable as a first time mother that you’d find it annoying but unreasonable for making such a big deal.
grandparents can be annoying and have opinions and want to do things differently.
they love your child and remember raising their own children.
you need to pick your battles.
and on a brief trip to a different country to see them I would have held my tongue and not worried so much about things like a bit of pretzel.
they clearly are doting grandparents and your child is lucky to have them.
they play with them.
they can amuse them contentedly when you aren’t there
they have different cultural and age related ideas about child rearing but it’s harmless .

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