Anyone else wobbling about voting Labour?

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

I’ve watched all the debates now and Starmer is so… wet. I don’t like him. The first thing he did when women’s rights were mentioned his first thought was men who ‘identify as women’ and how ‘marginalised’ they are. When asked about immigration he squirmed and squirmed before muttering about his role as DPP (who cares? We want to know what you plan to do NOW). When asked about his support for Corbyn he said ‘but I didn’t think we would actually win..’

There’s something about him which is making me very uncomfortable and I just have a bad feeling now about what would happen if he was leader.

Anyone else? If you’re not voting Tory or Labour, who are you voting for and why? I assumed I would vote Labour this time but my gut is suddenly screaming at me not to!

NHS waiting lists are always shorter under Labour governments. Child poverty was far lower under Blair/Brown and has rocketed under the Tories. Food banks have proliferated. You could call an ambulance or book a GP appointment under Labour. Your children were taught by subject teachers, not a chain of supply. There are so many measurable ways in which public services and standards of living are higher under Labour than the Conservatives - it simply isn't true to say that taxpayers' money disappears into a black hole. Sure, in the past fourteen years all of our money has been funnelled into Tory contracts and been siphoned off to make the super-rich even more wealthy but that's this government, not all governments.

Well, don't tell us you're prioritising safety of women and girls but then vote for a party which implements policies that massively negatively impacts the welfare and wellbeing of women and girls.

Tommy Robinson uses his care for women and girls as cover, so do you.

Don't like the comparison? Don't do it.

Yeah they don't actually care about women in prisons.

Successive governments have not cared one jot about prisoners male or female.

My young relative is in prison - autistic, brain-damaged by lack of oxygen in utero - he shouldn't be there in the first place. He is subject to daily threats of violence, being made to take drugs by the drug barons in the prison etc. It is a disgrace.

Labour's Sure Start initiative made a huge positive impact on children + families' lives. The tories have closed every single one in my county over the past few years.

Just as a matter of interest, what are you doing to promote the welfare and safety of women in prisons where there are no trans inmates? They are still unsafe and really unpleasant places, and they've become distinctly worse over the last 12 years.

Your cause is really advanced by calling anyone who doesn’t agree with you “weak minded handmaidens”. That’s really going to show us. 🙄

This is true. We had a sure start centre with my first child - it was amazing. The difference in not having it with my last child made a big difference.

Are Labour committed to bringing them back?

We have had so many years of chaotic politics boring and stable, which seems just that too many is just great to me.

Well, bring it on - just look what the last 14 years, especially the last 8, has bought. Wtf wants anymore of this.

KS is a very clever articulate man. Fine, he hasn't gotten T.B. charisma. If I want to be entertained, I'll head to the theatre.

I want sensible, boring politics back. KS is exactly what this country needs now. He is the quiet man, and he deals in action and facts. He is a barrister by career and not a career politician. Be came into politics 10 years ago at the age of 50. He came ij yo serve, not self serve, like the Tories in name only, in the words of Chris Patten last governor to Hong Kong.

He is a decent, solid, family man, happily married, faithful with 2 children he wants to keep out of the limelight.

Victoria, his wife, is a solicitor in the NHS. His mom and sister were nurses. He wasn't bought in in money. What he has he has earned. He is not Thatchers grandchildren born with silver spoon in their mouths.

Finally, remember this: "When politics works, it's boring. When it's on the front page of the press every day, it's failing"

To fill in and join up the dots on the man behind the soon to be P.M. listen to this podcast. There is a lot more to KS than you realise.

podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/keir-starmer/id1454408831?i=1000552160665

I don't know I'm afraid. I just know that the tories clearly don't prioritise the Early Years...

You know exactly what you’re doing. You could have compared to any other political party but chose to reference an individual who isn’t even in charge of a political party. He’s just a criminal who the media like to put on the news now and again. Just accept that people can have a different opinion to you on a wide range of topics. It’s not up to you to close them down by throwing insults about. Some people fight for womens rights, others, like yourself, don’t. And that’s okay - it’s your prerogative to believe whatever you want to believe.

I agree - Starmer seems a decent bloke and, faced with the need to get rid of the Tory shower who have brought politics into disrepute by their absence of integrity, he is the one to go for.

I think he will be boring, but bring it on say I.

Anyone who is wobbling about voting labour should read the thread 'sick of it'

The conservatives have deliberately reduced help for families and carers. Instead the money has gone to offshore tax havens

Not wobbling at all. I can't wait to get this lot out. I don't think Starmer or Labour are perfect but it's time for change. I've seen a massive decline in this country during the last few years. I feel genuinely frightened at the thought of them continuing. I feel the UK has become a place that's only OK to live if you're wealthy.

This really concerns me.

Once legislation is brought in (self ID), no government will have ever have the guts to repeal legislation. That REALLY scares me and that moron (Starmer) has made it very clear whose side he is on.

the only way Starmer can achieve anything is through tax tax tax. This is always how Labour attempt to balance their
books. So get ready to have a drop in income... tough days ahead.

I desperately want to GTTO but the last few years have taught me that ‘any change’ isn’t always good and things can get worse, even if you think they can’t.

What change are you referring to that has happened in the last few years to teach you that @MaryMaryVeryContrary ?? Because as far as I’ve seen everything terrible that’s happened has happened under the same government for over a decade.

I know exactly what I'm doing, the comparison is accurate.

If you vote for the Tories but claim to do so to protect women and girls you are being utterly dishonest and use this as a cover for something else.

You aren't fighting for women's rights, you are using it as cover.

If you were fighting for women's rights you couldn't possibly vote Tory.

Just a note on not voting for leaders.

You are not voting for the leader.

The public did not vote for May, Johnson, Truss, Sunak. You can’t vote for a leader because the leader isn’t a guaranteed constant anyway.

You are voting for the party and for the MP locally that you’d like to have as your representative in government.

Look at their policies. Look what the MPs and candidates are doing locally. There’s more to it than what hoodie someone is wearing or how they eat a bacon sandwich.

and the highest tax level in 70 years is under what party?

100% this

Brexit, working from home, death of the Queen, change of PM multiple times… a handful of things really. I realise it sounds silly but I feel like every ‘change’ our country has encountered, and not just in terms of government decisions, has resulted in turmoil and just chaos really.

The Tories have given us the highest taxes in 70 years and presided over a cost of living crisis that has created a huge drop in people's incomes, fuelled BT a Tory PM crashing the economy and causing interest rates to go through the roof. How are people making the argument that Labour can't be trusted with the economy with a straight face? High taxes, less money, lower living standards and zero public services (while wealth inequality gets dramatically worse) is the Tory strategy, not Labour.

The death of the Queen was inevitable, as is the death of the King, and William after that. I don't disagree it impacts the country but unless we decide to oust the royals, we've no control over that. It certainly shouldn't be a factor in deciding which political party to vote for.

Lib dem are the only ones who don't want to make sick and disabled people go back to work. So if I am well enough to vote, it will be for them.

Lifelong Labour voter not voting Labour for the first time due to Keir’s stance on women and immigration. Will go Green.