To wonder if Private School parents think we can’t read?

[Captainmycaptains]

Work/volunteer in Education so following the whole VAT debate.

SM is full of private parent groups ‘organising’ to get the proposed VAT on fees cancelled - fine you would, wouldn’t you esp.if you’re used to getting your own way.

They’re advocating hassling local schools, councils, demanding stats and figures that don’t exist, wiring to MPs - telling people to ‘claim’ their state place to ‘disrupt’ the ‘system’ while also saying ‘ Obvs we won’t be taking Charlotte and Hugo out of school, we’ll find the money’ etc strive harder, getting granny to chip in’ but this might make the council ‘panic’.

Do they think that people in support of the VAT aren’t seeing/hearing/reading all of these plans???

the funniest one yet is the poster who said ‘ well going to claim our state school places then! See how they like that! We’ll going holiday, pay the mortgage down, shop at Waitrose and save £700k in the process, ha!’
I. no you aren’t 2. Okay - go for it! Who on earth would think £700k is worth it?? Behave like a normal person then…

YANBU - yeah, they’re noisy as expected but the rest of us are as think/ concerned as they seem to think. Also - it’s too late for Sept - waiting lists only…

YABU - applying for school places you have no intention of using is daft, and of course everyone can see what they’re trying to do.

Thanks 😊 shame I can't say the same about you!

Seeing as I don't support labour and not planning to vote for them I haven't done an indepth dive into the policy. Seeing as it affects you, I'm sure you have.

Independent schools should pay tax.

Fair point. But they have said they won’t raise the 4 big taxes. Capital gains brings in a relatively small amount. So they need huge (and in my opinion unrealistic) growth to do what they claim they’ll do.

Teachers, cleaners, TA’s, office staff, caretakers etc who will lose their job would possibly disagree. Any many small private schools are actually pretty good.

Independent schools already pay tax

I want a government that is not corrupt. I can't believe the amount of naked corruption by the conservative government.

The reason the Labour Party is actually doing this apparently is to get more Maths teachers into state secondary schools, which I assume means they think some private school Maths teachers will switch to state schools instead. I just do not think that will happen. More likely they will get a lot of ex private school PE teachers, Latin teachers, MML, History teachers etc.

Maths A level is the most popular A level and a really good one to do and state schools are really struggling to recruit teachers. It is also a great A level for most STEM degrees and even Economics and even things like Law like Maths. So we absolutely need more Maths teachers in the state sector. But what is actually a good plan to recruit more Maths teachers? I really would like to know the answer to that one, because children in state schools really are badly affected by this now. I mean could they not incentivise some Maths/STEM students and pay off their student debt etc if they teach for five years etc. Surely there is a more reliable way to get Maths teachers into the state sector quickly? This private school VAT won’t work, especially not in the short term. Surely all the rich private school parents will have prepaid by now anyway, for starters. And the schools will claim back Capex so it will take years for this policy to make any money?

I am very torn on this.

I don’t think VAT in fees is intrinsically unfair, but I do think they will struggle to bring it in, and it probably will raise less than the £1.6 bio suggested by the IFS study, And it will impact on children’s education half way through school.

But, and it is a big but, the reason it has come to this is that for years many many schools have only paid lip service to being part of a bigger community, part of the reason that they were awarded charitable status.

I would prefer hard legislation on a minimum percentage of 100% bursaries (+add ons), sharing of school facilities when they are not being used, and giving the best qualified teachers, especially in scarcity subjects, time to go and give extension classes at other local schools (or bring pupils in for it).

As someone who has been involved deeply in both sectors, the resentment on both sides is palpable. Private schools and private school parents shouldn’t be buying social insulation, they should be improving the community for everyone. When I was teaching at a very exclusive expensive school, and we brought in pupils from the local school for A level extension classes, the ones who came put our lot to shame in terms of genuine curiosity and desire to learn. I think it taught both sets of pupils some good lessons to work together.

Wow - you're saying that about children?!! 'them' is a child. Sorry, but that's awful. I'm assuming you are an adult writing. For an adult to express such vehemence towards kids is quite shocking. A child is a child, even if their parents are wealthy.

@Araminta1003 can you provide any proof of your theory?

Are you voting Labour then?

@purplecaterpillar - which theory do you mean? Can you be specific?

VAT on school fees are fine by me , would also like to see VAT added to private tuition that is so popular with the state school parents I know - we wouldn’t want to give anyone the opportunity to “buy” advantages for their children would we now!!
I can just see the threads now 🤣
(for clarity, a PS parent who accepts the VAT addition who in RL knows many SS parents buying tuition who fail to see their situation is different )

So if I don't vote Labour am I automatically voting Tory?

@Araminta1003 you have just made a long comment with a theory that vat on private school fees is really a conspiracy to enable the government to recruit more maths teachers for state schools. I am asking for some proof of your theory.

Her post was rude but to be fair your initial one was rude as well.
Your situation sounds tough but it wasn’t caused by people on this thread or private school parents, wasn’t it?
If a party was planning to make you (not everybody) pay more taxes / receive less benefits, wouldn’t you be angry and try to find ways to fight it? Especially if you are already part of the group paying the most taxes by far?

It would have little impact. Most tutors do not earn enough overall to be eligible to charge vat.

This thread is about whether Private School fees should be charged VAT (Value Added Tax).

So far, you are the one who has been sarcastic and making personal comments. I just responded to your sarcastic comment of "Well aren’t you lovely" in a snarky way which has clearly hit a nerve.

There is no point in crossing out nasty comments, i can still read them sweetie.

Yes it does

@FyodorDForever No i would not. Not everyone votes based on what is best for them as an individual.

This whole thing is getting very old. Mumsnet is full of threads with people delighted to be giving private school parents ‘what they deserve’. Apparently wanting to give your children the best education you can afford is a crime. So don’t be surprised when they bite back. Labours plans to charge VAT on fees will pull the rug out from under a lot of kids, some in the middle of their exam years. Clearly most of mumsnet delight in that.

Who knows what the outcome will be. We have no plans to apply for state school places we have no intention of using. However, the plans are so up in the air that lots of people are having to plan ahead as a contingency. I don’t blame them. I would be doing the same if I had to.

This sounds really familiar.

I went to state school and was most definitely “knocked down a peg or two” for being a smart kid, who got good grades and enjoyed learning.

Despite the bullying, and my hellish school experience at the hands of those who equated my being intelligent and eager to learn with being “stuck up”, I went on to university and my husband and I now have a successful business and are in a position to send our two children to private school.

I didn’t have a silver spoon sticking out of my mouth, nor did my husband, we are both from working class backgrounds, coming from very impoverish areas, and our children certainly don’t have a “silver spoon sticking out of their mouths”. Nor are my husband and I in any way “snobby” parents. My children are normal people, I am a normal person, as is my husband. What in particular is it that you would consider abnormal about private school children?

My state school experience for sure made me more resilient, but it is by far the biggest factor in my decision to have our children privately educated.

I would be interested to know how you define “a real struggle”. Financial hardship isn’t the only kind of struggle in life. Many children face “real” struggles, including private school children.

The language you are using sounds all to familIar to me. The sentiment all too familiar.

Luckily the addition of VAT won’t affect our family in any way, but I know many private school parents who it will affect. My friends, both doctors, will absolutely NOT be able to afford the increase. They are absolutely entitiled to apply to their local school while they try to make a decision/find a solution, or to complain about it on a closed Facebook group. The glee from some people at this policy and to the reaction of the people it will affect just shows that it’s not only this poster who is delighted to see certain people and their children “taken down a peg or two”.

Dancing, do you generally make such massive generalisations about segments of the population? Isn't that the essence of prejudice and bigoted? Just to enlighten you, there are many reasons why people send their kids to private school - some are rich others are not and get in debt/scrape together the fees because they think it's worth if for whatever reason. Not all public schools are better than state schools so kids there are not necessarily getting any sort of advantage. There are many excellent state schools which are superior to private schools. You are talking nonsense based on outdated generalisations. Also to add, I moved my 2 kids out of private last into into a fairly rough state school and they were absolutely fine from day one. No bullying, no issues making friends, no accusations of being pretentious etc.

I think the uk should run education how they do in Australia, would be much fairer for all.

OP you just sound jealous of those who can afford private schools.