To wonder if Private School parents think we can’t read?

[Captainmycaptains]

Work/volunteer in Education so following the whole VAT debate.

SM is full of private parent groups ‘organising’ to get the proposed VAT on fees cancelled - fine you would, wouldn’t you esp.if you’re used to getting your own way.

They’re advocating hassling local schools, councils, demanding stats and figures that don’t exist, wiring to MPs - telling people to ‘claim’ their state place to ‘disrupt’ the ‘system’ while also saying ‘ Obvs we won’t be taking Charlotte and Hugo out of school, we’ll find the money’ etc strive harder, getting granny to chip in’ but this might make the council ‘panic’.

Do they think that people in support of the VAT aren’t seeing/hearing/reading all of these plans???

the funniest one yet is the poster who said ‘ well going to claim our state school places then! See how they like that! We’ll going holiday, pay the mortgage down, shop at Waitrose and save £700k in the process, ha!’
I. no you aren’t 2. Okay - go for it! Who on earth would think £700k is worth it?? Behave like a normal person then…

YANBU - yeah, they’re noisy as expected but the rest of us are as think/ concerned as they seem to think. Also - it’s too late for Sept - waiting lists only…

YABU - applying for school places you have no intention of using is daft, and of course everyone can see what they’re trying to do.

The schools would charge VAT not be charged VAT. They would collect the VAT and pay it to the government (less their input VAT).

Well aren’t you lovely was a comment about not caring about kids having to change schools. Personally I think this is tough regardless of the circumstances. But as we know you don’t give it a shit about that.

You also haven’t replied as to how any of issues you raised will be improved by adding VAT to school fees.

@purplecaterpillar“you have just made a long comment with a theory that vat on private school fees is really a conspiracy to enable the government to recruit more maths teachers for state schools. I am asking for some proof of your theory.”

This is what Sir Keir Starmer himself said on various TV debates - exact words it is the recruits Maths teachers. He went on and on about it. I am sure you can find some of the clips on YouTube.

This!
the state system is full of inequality.
Why only Grammars in certain areas? Year 6 kids tutored to get in. Our very system creates inequality

I agree with this.

The far better approach would be to incentivise more parents into the private sector so that the state resources could go further. But that’s a think two steps ahead approach …

Government and councils also have a big problem with special school places being too expensive and they want the private special schools to cut costs! They have been directly told to do so.
Perhaps they should just build some more special schools again themselves and just invest in our young rather than the constant investment in the elderly and the NHS.

I went to state school myself, but we have made sacrifices to send our son to private school. He's on the spectrum, incredibly bright, but would be eaten alive at our local state school. At his private school the parents are not particularly well off on the whole (have 1 car, local holidays and live in ordinary 3 bed houses all across town). There are 25 children in a class. I read an interesting financial analysis of labour's plans. The money will raise 2% of the education budget which will be spent on the schools in the most deprived areas. Some of this money will come from the vat introduction, but some will also come as a result of a shrinking demographic of school age children up until 2030. By 2030 there will be less than approx 200,000 children in the system than currently.

Many of those deprived schools also get well funded compared to more average state schools (rightly so in my view). However, there comes a point when it seems to me that it just becomes a case of pouring water down the drain. My friend works in a very deprived area. Despite the school providing tablets and help, my friend only had 3 children out of a class of 30 attend her online lessons. Until the benefits system is overhauled and there is better access to jobs, there is little incentive for some. On the other hand, the provision for special needs in this country is truly appalling. My daughter has required speech therapy and we have been fortunate enough to have savings to raid to pay for treatment. Others at her state school are far less lucky. If the money is spent on those who truly want to learn and need additional help, then that would be a good result. However, seeing it given to kids where it makes little impact is wasted imo. Private school parents do of course save the state system a considerable amount a year (which tends to amount to a little over the 20% vat rate), so it does seem like a double tax in some respects.

However, I do agree with you re the stupidity and arrogance of a few entitled parents and I was forwarded a message about how to attempt to manipulate the system by applying for state school places. I gave it short shrift. The independent financial reports indicate that 7-8 % of private school pupils will be forced to leave. However, due to falling numbers, the state schools should mostly be able to absorb this amount. The policy jas been thought out. I also thought that it smacked of some of those more well off parents trying to use their power to change govt policy in order to get their own way. That reflects poorly upon the majority of us who would not stoop to such unintelligent and corrupt levels.

I do think though that the educational burden should fall more to the tax payer generally though.

@Araminta1003 I have never once heard this and I watch a lot of news. Can you provide a link where he says that charging vat on private school fees is to help recruit more maths teachers for state schools?

Or are you simply referring to Starmer's pledge to increase maths teachers in state schools and making your own theory that this is linked to vat on private school fees?

For schools, you can see it though.

The state pays somewhere around £6k per pupil per year. That is money that they do not have to spend for DC who do not use state schools. I agree it's not a subsidy, but it is a saving to the schools budget.

Similar for other services - but harder to quantify.

I agree with the EU principle of no taxation on education, which is why I dislike this policy. Not because I have a personal stake in it (no DC in private schools)

And I don't see any particular reason (other than the principle) why it shouldn't/couldn't be done.

But I don't think it's going to raise as much as predicted, and the anticipated reduction to schools budget arising from demographic change will be reduced.

I do think that, if the aim is revenue raising, there are other ways it could be done (which remain within EU rules, so don't give succour to Brexiteers in the way this policy does).

I think Labour ended up here by mistake. They stuck their neck out earlier about charitable status, without grasping the complexities first, had to row back from it, and were left with finding something else to do so it looked less like a U-turn.

(I also remember that Gove favoured this, which tends to put me off instinctively, but I'm trying to discount that reaction!)

Dodging the question.

Ultimately state sector has been shafted and private sector is about to be.
We should be joining forces not pitted against each other!

Really am not.
Just asking why the immediate assumption is that I am a Tory voter. FYI lifelong Labour voter but not this time.

@MisterMagnolia lots of families who are poor do not have home wi fi. Joining online lessons is not always easy. Many would have to go to a library. Our local library is full of poorer pupils accessing free wi fi to do their homework. There are more pupils wanting to use the PCs than are available.

100% agree with you

Why is this happening?

We need the money – for Education, NHS, Social Care, Criminal Justice

Most of those families using private healthcare in the top 10% and a great many in the top 1-2% so we are going to take it from you because you can best afford it and this is the most palatable way for the general public.

You are not all going to flee to the state sector. The numbers attending private schools haven’t changed in decades, despite big increases in fees.

But even if you do state school rolls are falling and can accommodate this.
State schools managed to take in 20,000 Ukrainian children in a year so they can manage some private school kids.

And you will have all this extra money to spend on other things so we will get the VAT on your other consumer spending.

Children with an education and health care plan will be exempt for VAT charges under Labour’s plans. So it shouldn’t affect them.

Meanwhile most children with education and health needs attend state schools so let’s get up some anger about their needs not being met.

I’m completely fine with taxing a rich cohort a bit more so that the 93% who go to ordinary state schools can have a better education.

Most SEN kids at indi schools don't have EHCPs. Parents are now starting to apply for them which costs the state money.

oh are we finished writing things like this?

I see. Well if you read my comment properly you will see the things I care about. A stranger on the internets child having to move to a state school because their parents can't afford fees is very low down on my list of things i "give it a shit about". I'm not sure why you care so much in such an aggressive manner to be honest.

Yeah, you aren't going to get one either. Why don't you ask your local labour councillor? Seeing as I am not in politics its not really up to me to decide where money gets spent.

Are you ok with state boarding schools being exempt whereby the education is "free" but the boarding aspect costs between 10-20k per year (same cost as most private school fees)?

Private schools are not part of my world, never will be.
Of all the things going wrong with our country tho, I just can't fathom how this is one of Labour's main policies. Especially as so many of the higher ups in the Labour party benefitted from private school/ selective education themselves. It's so hypocritical & just playing on the politics of envy, & it's grim.
One reason I won't be voting Labour (along with their views on women, of course).

Wow what a bizarre post.

i have a disabled son who was in the state system form aged 7 and a daughter who started off in state and went to private when we transferred cities and were offered not the best school.

Most private school parents I know are a mixture and many are obviously able to mix with state schools parents - I would hope so as they are operating on you or examining your vagina or representing you in the police cell at 2am. They probably have more life and sometimes horrendous experiences tosome state schools parents. They deal with telling people on a daily basis that they might die or stress at night over messing up a multi million pound deal

Technically my husband was a parent of a private school kid - he has even bene know to attend a suddenly called meeting on Xmas Eve for a charity that helps disadvantaged kids - he’s not paid but was asked to go along. He’s on the board- unpaid.

As for the private school 🏫 kids, my daughter was exceptionally popular at Amazon during the Covid period and was asked to do the best shifts etc She was also great at on line to tutoring Maths to a SEN child. As an intern she was invited to the BBC to work with a famous person but untimately is going to Big 4. When her granddad was dying when she was 18 she emptied his catheter and cleaned his bloody mouth. As a child she was able to clean her disabled brothers bowel incontinence eg cleaning the poo all over his legs and fishing the poo out of the bath - she was doing that aged 7 etc. For her dissertation she received the most amazing score for being able to lead a team. My son’s
state school would have loved her to come but she did not want to move out of her for friendship groups. In sixth form she also volunteered as a visitor at an old persons home for 2 years and it was way beyond any CV building - she was fond of them. I have felt incredible regret that she was an unpaid carer for her brother during year 13 when her granddad was dying and I was caring for him. I could not care for both .So what bit of the real world does she not know about?

The point I’m making so that there are some amazing people in the state and private school centre who can cope with any hardships and deal with any type of person.

It’s wrong to generalise.

”Are you a Socialist because you love the poor or because you hate the rich”
sorry can’t remember where the quote is from.

Yes of course because state boarding schools are meeting different needs e.g. children living in very rural areas, military children etc and these needs can't be met at a state day school.

Its not comparable.

That’s already happening round here in my neck of the woods, a wealthy suburb of London.

Lots can afford to send privately but choose state. Then they have lots of money for tutors and holidays. Some are governors etc

The misunderstanding is that this will happen in deprived parts of the U.K. It won’t because the people that can move, will.

People who have the money will move to be very close to already outstanding state schools.

We live in a free market economy. VAT money is not going to be the great leveller people hope. Or the sudden injection of life into state schools.

There will be a rebound to this. You can’t tinker with one aspect of a market and not see ripples elsewhere.

‘It’s not really fair though is it?‘

No but that is soon to be rectified, VAT 1st then loss of charity status.

And it is to your credit. I think you are in the minority though, especially is the policy in question would have a significant, direct and immediate impact on their household.

They aren't going to remove charity status, they've already said that so you can crawl back under your bridge now