Are we BU to move kids to NI from SE England?

[Putyoursunscreenon]

I am from NI originally and DH is English. We live in the SE due to DH's work in London. We have 2 x dcs who are 7yo and 9yo.

We've always been keen to go back to NI for a few reasons. Dh has been going over there to visit since we were 19/20 yo and loves it as much as, if not more than, I do.

DH is planning to keep working in his current job and flying back to go to the office. Possibly every week (!), but I'm really hoping he won't have to do that.

DH is especially keen to do it. I think the pressure of the cost of living here is getting to him which I absolutely understand.

Pros are:

1. nearer my family and old friends who dh likes a lot
2. we would be mortgage free after selling our house over here and buying something bigger, near the sea in NI (which is nuts)
3. dh, dcs and I love it there

Cons are:

1. further from dh family
2. dh would have to travel for work
3. I won't have a job there to start with. I can't work remotely and don't have the sort of skill set where I'd walk into another job if we moved. However, we could afford for me not to work for a while (or at all, but I wouldn't choose to be a SAHM long term)
4. dcs are well settled here and have some nice friends at school. I'm worried about disrupting their lives

In terms of SEN, the legislation and actual practices of the EANI are way behind what they are in England. Does the NI Sen code of practice still date from 1995? It did a few years ago. In any case, it’s a very different kettle of fish from England. Waiting for a statement is like interminable. The EANI does not turn these around quickly. It’s not the EANI staff’s fault of course- they just seem to have poor upper management.

another example - statements do not cover periods past the age of 18. EHCPs go up to 25. There is no provision or schemes for young SEN people in NI at the moment. People are petitioning to change that, but it’s just behind.

Call the Children’s Law Centre in Belfast as they will give you a clear outline of what SEN provision looks like in NI. They are an amazing organisation. If you do decide to proceed, keep their number handy. See also SENAC.

In general a lot of people here on this thread have likely benefited from a great NI grammar school education. The grammar schools are great, yes. But if you don’t fit into that cohort for whatever reason, it’s a far poorer education you are going to get.

You'd only need to get a tutor, and there are plenty out there! DH and I are NI born and bred, lived and worked in London for a bit but moved home before we had our children. The NI education system is good, though I recognise that all three of our children perfomed sufficiently well to get into a sought-after grammar school. Two of them are graduates now, one of them a teacher, the other doing a Masters, and the third half-way through a degree.

I'm so glad I had my children in NI, not in London!

Only in the last few days has EANI announced a new SEN provision. They are working on it. The demand is high.

We used to be able to use the Fortwilliam site for meetings etc but SEN provision has taken that over and it is no longer available.

That isn't the case! A lot of our non grammar schools are achieving great results!

Are your children confident, easygoing, friendly children who will easily make friends in a new area? Do they enjoy the sort of opportunities which will be available in their new home area? Will the SEN provision in school be as good/better than that in the SE? If your DD doesn't get into the grammar school, will her educational opportunities be as good as those she could access in England?

If yes to all of these, than no reason not to go for it.

I admit when I saw you have a DC with SEN or possible SEN yesterday that did give me pause. Do you have any friends here in that boat you could talk to? If you will likely have good support where you are I don't know that it would be a good idea to give that up.

Thanks @celestecunningham. Yes, my close friend has a dc with sen in NI.

My ds has quite mild SEN, so doesn't need much support other than in school. He goes to mainstream primary etc. It is mainly things like sensory needs and his speech and handwriting being a bit behind. His maths and reading are fine. I do worry about him moving schools though as he has some close friends he loves playing with and I worry about him making new friends really.

I do have some friends and family who are doctors and nurses in NI, so can also ask them.

I know what you mean. I've thought a lot about the plus sides and downsides to living in NI. But haven't mentioned the downsides to living near London and honestly, there are a few! I know people have said the weather, but the heat here can be oppressive. The sheer number of people in a small area, the expense, the disparity in wealth and (can't believe I'm saying this as a child of the troubles albeit in a very nice part of NI), some of the violence here. At least there are no provos obviously!

I think we are decided on leaving this area at some point in the next couple of years, even if it isn't to go to NI.

Anyway, loads to think about. First need to hear what dh work says. They might say he can't do it which would change things. Then we'd look at moving somewhere with good train links to London but further away.

Thanks all for the helpful comments 💐. I will probably post on craicnet if we hear from dh work that we can move, to get specific help re schools and SEN.

Hi op I made a similar move 3 years ago with my English dh and 9 year old dd. Not regretted it one bit.

I did get my dd a tutor as the standard here was higher and she was behind in maths. There's a bigger maths focus here in primary. My dd did get into a great grammar. She was also eligible for special provisions due to the clause- spent more than half their primary education outside of NI. You should be able to find this info on SEAG website (it was AQE and GL) when she did hers. Didn't need to use it in the end as she achieved a good score.

We're also mortgage free (late 30's) and have a bigger house in a nicer area. We're near the sea and 10 minutes from Belfast. Quality of life is so much better. It's cheaper here for sure plus cheaper uni fees, free prescriptions, no water charges. Some public services are better- bin collections (my dh is ecstatic lol). Where we were was black bin bags!

We do have private healthcare but have only used it once. Dh and I got jobs that actually paid more. Travel abroad I've found is cheaper when I compare what I paid from stansted. Schools don't fine you for taking kids out of school.

Yes the politics is weird but it's a shit show everywhere. My dh isn't politically minded so if you're not into it you don't notice it.

Lots of English accents. Dh never had an issue and neither did dd, though she has a proper NI accent now.

Pace of life is just slower. Just something you notice quickly. traffic 100% better. Sitting on m11/ m25 was no joke.

My dd is growing up with cousins which is amazing!

The only downsize for me as I love the heat is the weather. I miss the sunshine. Dh loves it here though as he hates the sun! But we can afford many holidays a year as we have more disposable.

Also SEN. I don't know what area you're in specifically in England but here there are many ASD units attached to primaries. The thresholds for a statement is lower here than an EHCP. I generally find the schools more inclusive and nurturing. Waiting lists here for NHS ASD assessments is about 4 years but that's the same in England. Private assessments are cheaper here- around 1400-1500.

I wouldn't. I'm NI born and bread and couldn't get out of there quick enough! I did leave in the early 90s though, so times were very different, but I still feel the same about the place now even when I go back to visit. There are many advantages of course, its a beautiful country, and houses are cheap. The education system did wonders for me, I was the child of a single parent mum (pretty stigmatised back then) who went to a great grammar school which got me to uni, enabling me to leave for London after graduating. For that I am grateful, but I still feel quite stifled when I go back. Its not helped by the fact that in small town NI, where I am from absolutely everyone knows you and your business, when I moved away to London it felt so free! But YMMV. For what its worth after ten years in London I moved with my family and baby to Cork where we stayed for ten years. Again, it had many advantages, but we never quite fit in, despite my husband's family being from there. You may find the same, I recommend sticking close to Belfast if you do move. After that we moved to Oz which I find to be a much happier place, it feels like home to me.
So, long story short, I recommend going over for a month to try before you buy. But do it in winter, not summer (not that there is a huge difference!). It can be glorious on a sunny day in the North Antrim coast for example, but you get only a handful of days like that a year. If you can stick out a month in February you might find it suits you very well. Also be aware that sectarianism has not really gone away, it can be quite a shock to the system if you aren't used to it. It is not like England at all really, you just need to work out for yourself if advantages out weigh disadvantages for your family. Good luck!

Bred not bread FFS!

Tiny point OP but remember if your kids are summer born they’ll be in the year below whatever year they are in in England, which might give you some breathing space.

Im from Belfast now living in London and have thought often about this move but English DH isn’t on board as the parochialism and sectarianism puts him off. I think (hope?) things are changing and for me the amazing schools, houses and access to nature more than makes up for it - I’m jealous!

The only downsize for me as I love the heat is the weather. I miss the sunshine. Dh loves it here though as he hates the sun

Ha - same. I consider anything below 21 degrees cold, my FP thinks above 20 degrees is uncomfortably hot. I live in a fleece year round, and a scarf and gloves for at least 10 months of the year.

The primaries with attached ASD units are few and far between, and extremely hard to get in to. I have personal experience with navigating SEN life, ASD in particular and the services are absolutely dire. There are so many children at home without school provision, or non verbal dc in need of a special school in mainstream (and both the teachers and parents are pulling their hair out!). A private ASD assessment will not be considered by the EA wrt special provision. It sounds though as if OP's ds will not be in need of a statement thankfully, as the waiting list is so long.

That's awful. My really close friend's son has more complex SEN than mine and they are in NI. I think they have been quite lucky with his support. I don't want to tell her we might be moving back yet as don't know if it will happen. But when I do I will see if she woukd be happy to discuss a bit more.

My ds does not have an EHCP and isn't likely to need one. He doesn't have a 1:1 at school or anything, but does get some help with sensory issues and writing. They also flagged what they think is ASD. I used to be an LSA so knew what they were hinting at! Otherwise I don't know if I would have been told as it is mild

He sounds like he will be fine in a nice school, so don't let that put you off coming. My friend who had her dds in both the prep and state primary in Belfast told me that quite a high percentage of dc in her dd's prep class had mild SEN issues, and were sent there because of smaller class sizes where they got more time/attention.

I'm in North Down with a DD who was diagnosed with ASD in early secondary - it was "mild" enough that no-one picked it up in primary. It has been nigh on impossible to get any decent support for her, even when her mental health declined so badly she was unable to go to school at all. I would be very wary of moving into the NI school system with a SEN child.

My dd does have a statement with a fulltime assistant and a lot of other things put into place, but there have been many times where she isn't assisted because they are short staffed so she can't go to classes and has to sit in the library all day instead. Her mental health was very poor at one stage and she was off for 3 weeks and not once did anyone phone to ask about her, I was trying to get in touch with the SENCO to let her know and she never got back to me. In the end I had to contact the EA and tell them the reason she was off, and that the school hadn't even been in touch. To be fair I don't think this is an NI issue, schools all over are affected, in very few schools the SENCO is a full time role, in most schools the SENCO is a teacher who is teaching full time and the SENCO role is very much on the side.

Having worked as an LSA in primary and secondary I am sorry to say these things also happen in this area of England. It is terrible

My impression is that if your child gets diagnosed early there is support available - not always what you'd want or as much as you'd want, but enough to make education accessible for most children. But if, as is common with girls, it's not picked up till later, then it's really hard to get help.

The EA is not fit for purpose in my opinion - in four years we've had one phone call from educational welfare, and all they said was "ask for a camhs referral", as if we wouldn't have thought of that already.

Thanks again all. I'll leave the thread now and will probably post later on Craicnet if it goes ahead 😬

I'm still in the middle, but not as pessimistic as I was before

@Putyoursunscreenon
Sadly yes they are the same issues everywhere. They're not unique to NI. In fact, there is the autism intervention service in NI which do offer support for children up to 18, including OT, SALT and Psych. In the 3 LA's I lived in England this wasn't available. It was diagnosis then absolutely nothing. I also worked in education there.

Diagnosed then discharged is exactly what happened to my DD, no OT, SALT or any other support. She was already seeing CAMHS at that point, but we were told not to let them know she was being assessed for ASD because they would then discharge her and we'd have nothing at all.

I didn't mean to derail the thread, OP there are lots of good reasons for living over here, we're a half English couple too and my husband has always felt welcome, so don't let my rant put you off!

@NImumconfused
You can contact the CAAS (or equivalent- they're callled slightly different in each trust) and self refer if you need them.