Are we BU to move kids to NI from SE England?

[Putyoursunscreenon]

I am from NI originally and DH is English. We live in the SE due to DH's work in London. We have 2 x dcs who are 7yo and 9yo.

We've always been keen to go back to NI for a few reasons. Dh has been going over there to visit since we were 19/20 yo and loves it as much as, if not more than, I do.

DH is planning to keep working in his current job and flying back to go to the office. Possibly every week (!), but I'm really hoping he won't have to do that.

DH is especially keen to do it. I think the pressure of the cost of living here is getting to him which I absolutely understand.

Pros are:

1. nearer my family and old friends who dh likes a lot
2. we would be mortgage free after selling our house over here and buying something bigger, near the sea in NI (which is nuts)
3. dh, dcs and I love it there

Cons are:

1. further from dh family
2. dh would have to travel for work
3. I won't have a job there to start with. I can't work remotely and don't have the sort of skill set where I'd walk into another job if we moved. However, we could afford for me not to work for a while (or at all, but I wouldn't choose to be a SAHM long term)
4. dcs are well settled here and have some nice friends at school. I'm worried about disrupting their lives

Unfortunately cannot say the same here in Belfast! Getting a GP appointment is like winning the lottery.. (after 100 phone calls at 8:30am that is🙈)

In general I think YANBU but this is insane:
DH is planning to keep working in his current job and flying back to go to the office. Possibly every week (!)
He needs to agree to go remote or look for a new job. Flying that much is completely unjustifiable nowadays.

Awk come home, you'll figure it out

I have a commuting DH - what makes it unjustifiable? Whilst Taylor Swift is busy taking 5 minute long flights DH’s weekly hop over to England will never bother me..

52 round trip flights between Belfast and London are almost 20 tons of CO2, more than 4x more than the average Brit’s emissions even without factoring in any other elements of his life. It’s exactly same kind of behaviour as that which you’re criticising TS for - it’s not ok for either of them.

That area is very easy to get to city airport for flights to England too. Some lush houses in Cultra...

You’re really not going to be pleased to learn that he’s a pilot with upwards of 500 flights per year then.. We will have to agree to disagree.

Obviously a professional pilot can’t avoid flying regularly. It doesn’t sound like OP’s DH is a pilot so has no need to create these extra emissions.

Thanks all for the helpful comments 💐

He isn't a pilot and I really would prefer he not fly all year, so I do share your incredulity there tbh @teamarugula! He won't do 52 round trips a year anyway as he can buy holiday, plus his annual leave.

We have not once taken our dcs abroad on holiday and only fly to visit family in NI which is usually once a year. Otherwise we always have holidays on British mainland. I do think excessive flights for things other than work is totally avoidable, but this would be for work in a pretty essential service in STEM sector, so not just for the hell of it. His work absolutely won't let him work remotely, for reasons known only to them. Otherwise that would be a lot better for us and the planet.

I will look into boat crossings too though 👍

The ferry is lovely, and cheap for foot passengers (not so much if you take a car). Slow though.

Belfast to Liverpool is essentially a whole day or night - check in before 9.30, disembark after 6.30. Cairnryan is only a couple of hours, but then you have to get wherever you're going from Cairnryan. Dublin to Holyhead is about 3 ½ hours, with a slow road through north Wales.

Yes, I know that Belfast/Liverpool crossing well! It is slow, but it is doable.

What I'd like is if his work agreed for him to only travel over once a month, which he could do on the boat at least some of the time.

I don't think flying every week would be a long term thing and he would be casting his eye around for another job or even working as a contractor at his work. Not just the emissions factor, but also it just not being a nice experience

As airports go, George Best is one of the less annoying ones to commute through. Coming back can be different matter, depending which airport is at the other end.

But not a good long term prospect, for stress levels as well as wider concerns.

I have family in NI and live in the SE.

A few points I would mention:

1. Flying: total global emissions from flying are less than 3% of total CO2 emissions - your husband's flights (on planes that will be going anyway) are insignificant - don't worry about it. NI is at risk of being too cut off as part of the UK if we start being militant about the number of flights its residents can take. CO2 can be cut/offset elsewhere more reasonably. That said, if you do want to fly on holidays, there's far less choice of direct flights, even from Dublin - so destinations that were easy to access from SE England would involve 2 flights from NI. If you are concerned about emissions, have you considered whether you will do more driving in NI? I only use public transport here in SE England but all my family have 2 cars and drive everywhere, every day. If you are 100% electric that is less of a concern of course.
2. Kids: I moved kids similar age to yours (but to a European country) and they found adjusting very difficult. I accept they did not have local family to cushion the blow but even so their established schools/clubs/routines/friends were taken away from them and they were forced to start again. It was not as easy as people who have never experienced this make out. It took a year for one DC to settle and the other never really did - we needed therapy for that DC to help the mental health fall out.
3. NI is small: Everyone knows everyone (you will know this, does your DH?). I find the constant interconnections and talking about other peoples relationships and business infuriating. I like the anonymity of SE England, but it's a personal preference.
4. It's really backward when it comes to racism and homophobia - even if that doesn't affect you directly I'm pleased my kids are being raised somewhere with more progressive attitudes - ditto religion - it's insignificant in this part of SE England but much more prominent in NI.
5. Weather: It always rains (you'll know that) but trying to do stuff with kids when the weather is bad is a bind. Those rare sunny days on the coast are absolutely glorious but there's max about half a dozen a year that coincide with a weekend.

I'd echo the advice of others in terms of keeping your SE England property until you are absolutely sure you want no going back. Good luck.

[edited to add to section 1 re: driving]

Sorry OP I don't know if you confirmed you want to send to prep schools? Otherwise I'd be very careful, we have a really severe school place shortage in and around Belfast. Schools previously that had loads of places are full now, and the 'good' ones have waiting lists that are very long. I'd be worried about your eldest child's age and the SEAG. If you're going down the private route dismiss everything I said.
My brother and his family moved back from England and they say the quality of life is so much better. They are in North Down near Bangor and his wife keeps saying she cannot believe how many free things for families there is here. As a poster said, no matter where you are, you are always near a town, the sea and mountains.

I've got absolutely no skin in the game and I'm just being nosey, but how come private school is cheap in Belfast, how much are you talking? Is it used much more? Is it the only way to get a non religious education? So many questions.

@Ohdosodoffdear
Private schools aren’t really a thing here in NI. There is Rockport which afaik is about £12k per year (it might be a little more). Grammar schools are state schools - some are voluntary grammars with very small fees (around £300-£400) per year. There are a few grammars which have top up fees, but even those are max of £4k per year unless you’re paying for boarding, and the vast majority of our excellent schools are ea controlled grammars, ea controlled non-selectives or Catholic maintained schools all of which are free. (Or voluntary grammars as noted above with very small fees)

There are prep departments (primary) attached to some grammar schools, but not all have them - only a smallish number of voluntary grammars. Fees are around £4k per year for those.

The education system here is second to none, and N.Irish students consistently out-perform their English/Welsh counterparts in GCSE/A level every year. This is NOT just kids in grammar either - the majority of our non-selectives are really good too, and pupils who want to do well, and are prepared to value their education and work hard, will do well with great support.

There just isn’t a need for independent or private schools like there is in England

Private primary school (ie preparatory departments of some grammar schools) is roughly about £5k per year. There is only one truly independent school in NI, which is Rockport. Private school just doesn't seem to be very sought after, there were more prep schools, but they have closed down due to lack of funds. Perhaps it is because we have a (state) grammar system, and a lot of very good primary schools.
A friend of mine moved to NI and put her dd's into one of the preps (no space anywhere else) for a few years until they got a place in the local (outstanding) primary. She said what was on offer there was overall of a higher standard, and free!

Sorry @PopcornAndGummyBears I didn't see your post!

@PopcornAndGummyBears and poshsnobtwit Thank you, I'm fascinated by how different the bits of the UK are to eachother. What do you think you do so well there to get such good results, is it vastly different to the way England / Wales do things? Where I am (no grammar schools), it's so patchy, completely depends on the house prices in the catchment area hhow good or bad the schools are, unless you go Catholic / Welsh speaking, who seem to have higher standards.

@poshsnobtwit I concur with your friend. We didn’t consider prep schools when we moved over from Scotland - the local primaries are great and there was just no need to spend £4k per year, per child unnecessarily.

In terms of secondary - my DC are/were all at voluntary grammars - I pay around £400 per year per child. What they get here in terms of quality of education, facilities, extra curriculars, opportunities etc is the equivalent of private school where we were in Scotland which would have cost me £15k per year per child. (And actually - they still get a better education here) There is just no comparison.

I would disagree about the high schools being brilliant. I went to both a high school and a grammar and they were like night and day. I also work with dc from both, and can see there's still a massive gap. A grammar like Methodist College or RBAI will offer facilities/resources on par with top private schools in London. A high school OTOH most definitely will not. Many still only offer a limited selection of GCSEs and even fewer A levels. You cannot do science A levels in the majority of high schools in Belfast for example, they focus on BTECs and other vocational subjects. There will also be much less opportunity for competitive sports, whereas this is a massive aspect in the grammar schools.

@Ohdosodoffdear I can’t really compare with England and Wales because I haven’t lived there (although DH’s family are all in England), but in comparison with Scotland; I think education is just more valued here in NI. 🤷🏼‍♀️

I also think there is a lot more parent-buy-in with schools here. I think some of that is because we have a lot more parental
choice in schools - it doesn’t come down to catchment areas and distance from schools, so people are more invested in where their DC go to school. I think when you have chosen a school, rather than being put there, you are naturally more invested. It’s not just grammar vs non-selective either - there are bigger schools and smaller schools, single sex and co-ed, schools strong in sport or music or art, Catholic schools or non-Catholic or integrated etc etc etc…

We’re also a small country with a lot of people who have stayed here their whole lives so there is a lot of history with schools. A lot of kids will go to the school their parents went to, or even their grandparents and I think there is a lot more pride and sense of ownership in schools here than there is in Scotland certainly. (Like I said - I can’t speak for England/Wales)

I personally think the grammar system works (in most places - of course there are areas where the non-selectives aren’t great and there are certainly people who are snobby about grammars) When we lived in Scotland the quality of the school was directly proportionate to the house values in the area and it was a crap system. Your DC’s school choice is based on how much money you earn and I can’t see how that is any fairer or more equitable or better for social mobility than a system based on pupil achievement. (Yes - I know testing at age 11 is far from perfect, but I maintain that it is fairer than school quality being defined by the income of parents)

in addition to your concerns, what puts us off is:

future prospects for the kids
grammar school system
the weather being even colder and wetter
religion and politics
less diversity

we love it there when we’re over but always been too cautious on balance for the change

Would be worth posting in craicnet too as you may get more users there who’ve made the same move

With kids that age I would go- everything is cheaper, easier, friendlier, schools are great, less class nonsense that you get in England, and being from NI I assume you’ll be realistic about the weather!