Difficulties with asking Ukrainian refugees to leave after 1+ year of hosting them

[uainuk]

Hi all. I’m a mumsnet reader and I know how helpful and non-toxic this community is, so I decided to ask for a sanity check and advice on my situation. I’m Ukrainian myself, so it’s very difficult for me to be unbiased. And I don’t understand local mentality well enough yet. So your kind and weighted opinion will be very much appreciated. I also want to mention that not all Ukrainians are like the woman I describe in this post (or like me, of course). It’s just a one specific situation.

My boyfriend hosted a Ukrainian mum (50+) with a child (12+) more than a year ago, before we met. He had spare rooms and he’s a very nice and kind person, so it wasn’t a problem for him. He thought it will be a 6-month stay, but it already lasted much longer. In a couple of months after he hosted them we met and our relationship started developing. We decided to move in together a couple of months ago. Before I moved in he started having conversations with the woman he’s hosting about them moving on. She was looking for different excuses why she needs more time etc, but they finally agreed on the date. When the date was approaching she asked for more time and he let her stay longer. And now she’s running out of time again. And conversations become tougher.

She’s been here for more that 2 years living with different hosts, she still can’t speak English properly (because she’s not learning it, but chilling most of the time instead). She has 16 hours/week job and doesn’t want to work more hours on a low-paid job, because she believes she’s entitled to something better. She doesn’t want to rent privately, because she wants a council flat and she says she can’t afford private rent even though she gets Universal Credit and she can get housing benefits.

I’m also a Ukrainian and I ended up in the UK because of the war. I have a good job here and I never was on any kind of benefits, so I don’t know how the system works. But I used benefits calculator and I can see that she could afford renting privately. So I assume she just doesn’t want because she (probably) can’t save that much money if she rents privately compared to social housing. I worked my ass off for my entire life and keep doing that so I really can’t understand her.

My boyfriend wants them to move out, but he is not as direct and pushy as I am (he’s very English and I mean it in a very good way). I’m trying to be supportive, but I’m starting to freak out. The date is approaching and the situation becomes even more stressful for me and him. Even though we are trying to be a team, I think he feels more responsibility because he was hosting them before I moved in. And he’s trying to be nice to her which I believe she takes as a weakness. So the woman is trying to manipulate a lot and is saying how hard her life is and that she can’t move out because of ‘new reason every time’. And she’s trying to make him pay for her stuff, do jobs for her etc.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I being a bitch that wants a poor mum and a child to leave? I feel like I want to build my family and instead I’m having a constant stress on top of my work stress (I have a demanding and stressful job, which I love though and which is well-paid). I feel like he’s a bit too soft, kind and caring to a person that doesn’t deserve it. Do you have any advice on how my boyfriend and I could manage this situation more as a team and not ruin our relationship instead? Has anyone been in a similar situation with Ukrainians on homes for Ukraine scheme that don’t want to move out and how did you handle it?

Фантастика. Рос ІПСО з постами щодо того, які українські біженці нікчемні, тупі і корисливі вже і до мамснету добралася.

When I think about it from a selfish perspective, because I want to live with my boyfriend together, not with random people in the house. When I think about it from a rational perspective, because I think people should use Homes for Ukraine scheme to get on their feet and not to have free accommodation forever

Nothing wrong with either of those, OP, but if she's the cynical opportunist you believe I'd forget about any chance of him ending this "on good terms with her"

As so many have said the only real answer is to tell both her and the council that she'll be leaving on such and such a date. You'll probably find they're not "supportive" any more once it becomes clear the guest's going to be their problem, but never mind - very likely she'll be in a B&B and won't like it, but you've already given so much and it's really not your problem any more

I have been running a local Ukraine Support group and this is luckily a rare occurance as most of our families have wanted to get on their feet as quickly as possible. Your boyfriend needs to contact the Council to say he is evicting her. This sounds harsh but it is the only way the Council will take action. They will probably be housed in a hostel or b&b until suitable accommodation is found for her. How long that takes depends on the housing situation in your area. Living in a hostel will probably prompt her to seek privately rented accommodation fairly quickly!

It's quite reasonable in my eyes to want social housing. It is a very normal option in many countries. But I wonder if she understands that unfortunately we don't have enough in this country. What is she doing to try and get social housing? Because she will get nowhere while she lives with you. Her only chance is if your boyfriend makes her homeless (i.e throws her out) and she then goes into emergency housing. And it will still be many, many years most likely. My friend is in a hostel with her 2 DC now after being made homeless just before Christmas. They have one room for them all (1 adult and 2 teenagers) and then a shared kitchen and shower room. It's not the greatest, but she has made the room as nice for them as possible and they are ok.

Typical of this government to introduce a crazy scheme during a housing crisis and then leave it to everyone else to deal with the fall out. Every refugee no matter where they come from shouldn’t have to rely on charity.

Hi @uainuk I've not read all of your replies so not gully upto speed eigh the situation.
Just wanted to say that my sister was in the similar situation. She hosted Ukrainian mother and mid teens daughter. When it was time to move out mother really didn't want to. Didn't try to find anything, wanted council to gi e her accommodation. Whiltshe was staying at my sisters house, mother was working minimal hours (so that she gets more benefits). Therefore she was at home much more that my sister. Just didn't try to help herself. Felt like someone had coached her that she needs to get as much as possible out of the system. We are also eastern European, but this concept is totally alien for us. We have worked and worked for everything we have now. It was tricky for my sis to get the house back to herself.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes- I'm blaming fat fingers!

Her situation is very sad, of course, but so are many others'. She is no more entitled to a council house than anyone else - and yes, there is always a huge waiting list. She has been supported and helped massively since coming here - which is lovely of your DP - but the time has come for her to take responsibility for her own life - same as any single Mum here would have to do.

We don't have enough social housing for anyone. She may be stuck in a bnb or wherever - she is not in a position to be fussy. And she can absolutely get a full time job!

I know many Ukrainians have had a terrible time (and still are) but having left their country there does come a time when they have to be self sufficient - as does everyone else living here. Your DP has been amazingly kind - no need to feel guilty. It is now time to move on with things. Good luck!

The local council will likely move them onto bed and breakfast, one room with no cooking facilities. Bad for anyone including children and young people.
Has your boyfriend considered seeing one of his local councillors and asking what the councils policy is on this?

So many people wanted the scheme though and thought it was great, and that if the government wouldn't do it they must be horrible meanies.

They probably should have still said no, but no one was pressured into doing it, the people who chose to were the ones who thought it was a good idea.

To some extent, I quite like the boyfriend for not kicking out the first guest to appease the one he’s having sex with.

She can go into private accommodation and claim housing benefit as you said. She’s clearly stalling and has no intention to move until she gets a council property (she likes the look of - maybe - that could take years).

YANBU. Agree with PP get some advice/support for her to leave through the scheme he used in the first place.

It was always a poorly implemented scheme open to abuse , and with all the onus on the unwitting hosts .

Your BF has been very kind but it's supposed to be a temporary safety net so she can get a job and sort herself out and then move on. She clearly has no intention to ever leave.
Ask your BF how he feels about them still being there in another year, maybe 2 years etc. If he doesn't do anything now that's what's going to happen.

It was, yes, but as so often those driving it mainly wanted the headlines, all the time knowing that the fallout would be for someone else to deal with, and those who pointed out the possible issues were damned to hell and back

Sadly it's often the same with policy made on the hoof and at least partly in response to social media outcries, which is why it's not generally a good idea

I think I would put a for sale sign up, put on a ridiculous price, you dont’ have to accept any offer anyway, your chain could have fallen through etc. she wont know that.

No need to be offended. Ukrainians are as diverse and different as any other nation and no one on this thread is claiming that all Ukrainians are lazy and self-serving. This is a complex situation with a vulnerable but clearly also difficult person.
We hosted a very well educated ambitious Ukrainian professional who was very proud and keen to become independent and self-sufficient. We could draw on our own networks for supporting her to achieve this goal but she put a lot of effort into improving her English and using every possible chance to establish herself. This clearly isn't possible for everyone and I suspect that the ongoing war, the uncertainty about the future and the break up of families will affect the mindset of most Ukrainians who find themselves stranded outside their country.

I think it's time she started paying rent to your BF. It used to be that this could be paid directly out of benefits but I don't know if it is anymore. She has decidedly "outstayed her welcome". I don't think she'll end up homeless unless by choice. She needs to do as you have - learn the language and work more hours to provide for herself and her child.

Is there a cultural "shame" card you could play? Ukrainians have always struck me as a nation who don't want to burden others and who repay kindness. (I used to send marmalade to Ukraine to my friend and she'd send me caviar back. Or what I call Ukrainian Champagne 😂.)

I think in your heart you know she is taking advantage but she is pressing your emotional buttons - especially your BFs. It really is time to talk to the Council, set a firm date etc. Explain that the locks will be changed and her stuff put outside on this date. (You don't actually need to do these things).

If she wants a council place so bad she really needs to present as homeless. My comment wasn't aimed at you by the way. Someone said she would make your lives hell. I just felt that was unfair. Yes she's taken the hospitality abit far but hardly makes her liked to do what they suggested either.__

She will only get council housing if she's made homeless and put into temporary accommodation. If she waits too long and they child is older she may get nothing. So she's better and declared herself homeless now.

I know a lot of eastern Europeans have a hard attitude but simply put we can't all look after ourselves.Are you kicking her out so you can have a nice family unit and who cares about anyone else? She's Ukrainian like you. At least help her find someone else

Somewhere else to live I mean

We hosted mum , dad and child.

Right from the start I registered them for social housing and they were assessed as having no priority needs. I explained to them right at the start of hosting saying they would need to rent privately , unless they were made homeless.

Dad worked but mum has never worked since her child was born , the child is now late primary age , and despite what we have told her , she has no intention of working. She stopped English lessons and did nothing around the house , though it has to be said I think depression was part of the problem.

We repeatedly said they were not eligible for council housing unless they were made homeless and then they would be in emergency accomodation for possibly a year or more. We told them they would have very little choice over where social housing would be offered We also said they could not afford private rent and would not get benefits unless mum worked or was actively looking for work. Even then they would not be able to afford to rent in the metropolitan , attractive area they wanted to go to.

Towards the end of our time I became very unwell and they were rehoused with another host as an emergency . It’s now more than a year and they have been in contact again asking for my help with social housing once more.

I think in some ways it’s a cultural thing that rules are not always rules if you know the right people , but we are now coming to the point again where their current host needs their house back and the guests have done nothing to help themselves.

I honestly think they will have to be made “homeless” and live in a b and b or hostel so they finally are motivated to take the steps we have been telling them about for the past 2 1/2 years ie mum get a job , improve English and accept that they will not be in a position to rent in the highly desirable area they want to , but will have to go to an area which is perfectly fine with good amenities but less desirable. This is hard from someone who has lived in a hostel for homeless families in an inner city. But these are adults and sooner or later they have to make their own way.

I have to say , out of all the Ukrainians who arrived at the same time or even a bit later they are the only ones who haven’t “moved on”. Even single older women have made an independent life for themselves.

Ви така класна в білому пальто і про ІПСО говорите. А ви в своєму домі чужих людей прихистили? Чи знаєте ви як це жити з людьми, які від вас весь час щось вимагають і при цьому говорять російською (в цьому конкретному випадку)? Мені от дуже цікаво що ви зробили для України і біженців перш ніж стверджувати, що це іпсо. Наша комʼюніті найбільш токчюсична і охуівша з усіх, що я бачила.