Difficulties with asking Ukrainian refugees to leave after 1+ year of hosting them

[uainuk]

Hi all. I’m a mumsnet reader and I know how helpful and non-toxic this community is, so I decided to ask for a sanity check and advice on my situation. I’m Ukrainian myself, so it’s very difficult for me to be unbiased. And I don’t understand local mentality well enough yet. So your kind and weighted opinion will be very much appreciated. I also want to mention that not all Ukrainians are like the woman I describe in this post (or like me, of course). It’s just a one specific situation.

My boyfriend hosted a Ukrainian mum (50+) with a child (12+) more than a year ago, before we met. He had spare rooms and he’s a very nice and kind person, so it wasn’t a problem for him. He thought it will be a 6-month stay, but it already lasted much longer. In a couple of months after he hosted them we met and our relationship started developing. We decided to move in together a couple of months ago. Before I moved in he started having conversations with the woman he’s hosting about them moving on. She was looking for different excuses why she needs more time etc, but they finally agreed on the date. When the date was approaching she asked for more time and he let her stay longer. And now she’s running out of time again. And conversations become tougher.

She’s been here for more that 2 years living with different hosts, she still can’t speak English properly (because she’s not learning it, but chilling most of the time instead). She has 16 hours/week job and doesn’t want to work more hours on a low-paid job, because she believes she’s entitled to something better. She doesn’t want to rent privately, because she wants a council flat and she says she can’t afford private rent even though she gets Universal Credit and she can get housing benefits.

I’m also a Ukrainian and I ended up in the UK because of the war. I have a good job here and I never was on any kind of benefits, so I don’t know how the system works. But I used benefits calculator and I can see that she could afford renting privately. So I assume she just doesn’t want because she (probably) can’t save that much money if she rents privately compared to social housing. I worked my ass off for my entire life and keep doing that so I really can’t understand her.

My boyfriend wants them to move out, but he is not as direct and pushy as I am (he’s very English and I mean it in a very good way). I’m trying to be supportive, but I’m starting to freak out. The date is approaching and the situation becomes even more stressful for me and him. Even though we are trying to be a team, I think he feels more responsibility because he was hosting them before I moved in. And he’s trying to be nice to her which I believe she takes as a weakness. So the woman is trying to manipulate a lot and is saying how hard her life is and that she can’t move out because of ‘new reason every time’. And she’s trying to make him pay for her stuff, do jobs for her etc.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I being a bitch that wants a poor mum and a child to leave? I feel like I want to build my family and instead I’m having a constant stress on top of my work stress (I have a demanding and stressful job, which I love though and which is well-paid). I feel like he’s a bit too soft, kind and caring to a person that doesn’t deserve it. Do you have any advice on how my boyfriend and I could manage this situation more as a team and not ruin our relationship instead? Has anyone been in a similar situation with Ukrainians on homes for Ukraine scheme that don’t want to move out and how did you handle it?

The Homes for Ukraine scheme was a very needed immigration route, but the problem is that we thought the war would be over now. They have extended visas twice now, and technically, if Zelensky decides the war is over every Ukrainian on that scheme would have to go home. They are not incentivised to learn English through work like other visa routes so it isn't as comparable to someone on a skilled worker or family route. It is all really temporary and sad for people that need stability.

@uainuk temporary accommodation is not what you are imagining. They have different places for families so you shouldn't be concerned about her having to go there with a teenager

Your boyfriend has been very kind. But he needs to be firm with his guest and the council that his offer of accommodation has come to an end.

If the woman is not happy with the temporary accommodation you may find (as other hosts have found) that suddenly she is happy to rent privately.

I am fortunate that my guest has established themselves in a job and at university and although they come here in uni holidays they have already explained what they hope to rent when uni finishes.

I don't understand the handwringing. Give appropriate notice and follow through. Change locks on the day they need to leave. Inform council and just leave them to it. They'll be fine.

There would be someone at the local council supporting the scheme and those placed. Your bf needs to contact them and ask what the options are as the set up is no longer working.

He has been more than generous and homes for Ukraine was never intended to be permanent housing. Of course she would like cheaper rent, wouldn’t we all, my rent is so expensive but that’s life in the U.K. He needs to give a date and advise her that if she’s not found private rental by then the council will temporarily house her. He’s got to stop just extending and make it clear he’s serious as you guys want to set up home together and unfortunately his time for hosting is over. I’ve seen many people with this problem unfortunately

Kind and weighted opinion?
Sorry, no can do, as I was born in Prague and that city now hosts more Ukrainians than officialy in the whole UK. Major decision factor for me as to whether to leave the UK or not.
Difficulties?
Did you expect different?

I hosted a Mum and kids who now live locally in private rented accommodation (they’re an amazing family and we’re still very close to them). Our council told us that there was zero chance of them getting a council place so private renting would be the only option. But this differs in different areas.

It’s really tough but you just have to say something along the lines of “You’ve been in the UK now for over two years and lived at no cost to yourself. This can’t continue forever, it is not <boyfriend>’s responsibility to keep you, so for your own sake you must start taking the next steps. A council property is unlikely so you will need to save for a deposit and to do this you must increase your working hours”.

Once you explain the reality of temporary accommodation (moved round different hotels out of area every few days and teenager won’t be able to attend school, and no cooking or washing facilities) she might make more efforts. Tell her that she can’t be fussy.

I think that understandably, many Ukrainians have just fallen into a depression while they wait for the war to be over and they’re struggling. Others (often the younger ones) have thought “I’ve been given a great opportunity (albeit in awful circumstances) and I’m going to make the best out of this experience”. She needs a bit of tough love to push her into the second category. Can you talk to her? You can probably be more straight with her than your boyfriend.

Also, is she in touch with your local Ukrainian society? They’ll often send someone round to tell them how things are. It might be worth you contacting them, along with the council. If she’s told the same things by you, the council and the Ukrainian society it might sink in.

Good luck! слава україні 💙💛

In terms of how long they’ll have to wait for a social home, and what it will be like if they become homeless, it depends where you are in the country. Overall, there are very long waits for a social home. In London families with priority wait over 10 yrs. But in less populated areas it can be quicker - less than a year.

Temporary accommodation for families who are homeless is hell. Can be months in one room in bleak locations with limited transport, with frequent moves at 48 hours notice. A lot of it is out of the area, which means kids having to move school or 1-2hr commutes. It’s extremely unsettling for children, especially teenagers.

There are many lone parents, who work full time, going through hell right now in temporary accommodation.

The council may help her into a private rental. But rents are increasing at record levels, so if she can afford it now she may not be able to when the tenancy has to be renewed the next year. If she works part time (earns less than £793 a month) she may also be household benefit capped, which means she’ll likely not be able to afford a private rental.

Your approach to being self-sufficient is commendable. But being a lone parent with no family support is very difficult and frightening, even if British. As a refugee it can be even harder, especially if struggling to learn the language, which can be more difficult as you get older and less confident. How is her child doing? Are they settled in school or still struggling? Have they made many friends? They only have 4 years until important exams. What happens to them next could have a profound effect on their life. Also, where is their father? Are they very worried about him? Worry can be debilitating.

I suggest your partner and you as a team try to speak to the council, or a local advice agency like Citizens Advice or Shelter to find out the reality of her options and how long she’s likely to wait for a social home. They won’t talk to you about her specific case, but her scenario. If it may not be too much longer, it’s probably best to continue hosting them until then, to avoid disrupting her child. If it’s an incredibly long wait, then perhaps you could help her look for a private rental, so you have a sense of her options. I’m sure it’d help them a lot to take the next step if you both let them know you’ll be there for them when they move and try to help her find somewhere close by.

Don’t let your frustration with her (or judging her against yourself) come between you and your partner. He’s clearly a very kind man to invite a mother and child into his home and continue to support her. Don’t see that as a weakness.

Because they’ve been there two years, she won’t learn English, she won’t work full time, she’s sponging for money and favours, she’s spoiling the relationship…

Tell her she won’t get a council flat while she is housed. She needs to present herself as homeless and go through the process.

There is never a need to quote the original post though, it is assumed that all posts are responding to the OP. Only quote if you are responding to another poster. HTH

I don’t think anything you’ve said is unreasonable op and i think from what you’ve said, it does sound like what was originally a form of needed help, is now a situation where your bf is being taken advantage of.

My impression from what you’ve said is that the lady won’t ever leave or her own accord, so your bf needs to be tougher and more direct with her, with no more extensions, if he does genuinely want his house back to himself. And wanting to take his relationship with you to the next level is a valid reason.

You said he’s contacted the council and they’ve been supportive, do you know what advice they’ve actually given?

This is the hard fact. In order to be prioritised they need to be homeless and he needs to end the arrangement. With no soft landing. I'm afraid that's the way here, they are not going to prioritise them for anything whilst they've somewhere to live.

As to the question of what the accommodation will be like, it will depend on what's available. He can't get drawn into that though. I'm afraid this lady will have to just sort it out with the council

We are not anywhere near this sort of situation with our guests.

If we were we'd be asking the council for help and/or fellow hosts.

We have had a lot of support from the council and know there is more should we need it.

This is your boyfriend's problem to sort. Enabling is doing something for someone else they could do for themselves. Your boyfriend's lodger could help herself but isn't. Your boyfriend is enabling her to not take charge of her life. You are enabling your boyfriend not to take charge of his life by looking for solutions for him. He's going to have to overcome his desire to be nice and set some clear limits and boundaries but only he can choose to do this and follow through. It's out of your control.

Agree.

OP seems to be comparing herself to this woman where she comes out on top in all aspects (pat on the back). Those information about you isn't necessary in this situation at all.

You're doing well for your self as a Ukranian who left because of the war, she isn't. Perhaps you left but she fled - two different situations. Who knows if you both had the same opportunities in life and in Ukraine to start with. It's not typically good to compare yourself with others whether for the good or bad because every person's journey is different.

Also, somehow before you mentioned it, I knew your new bf is English. Just something of a "I've caught myself a British man" air about your post and this woman. Hopefully you don't have a condescending air towards her in her presence.

That said, yes she seems to be opportunistic or lazy or both - milking this free gift and 'soft' man for all he can offer. It's time for her to move on and all your bf can do is give her a letter detailing when he expects to move out (and state that keys will have to be changed on that day or house sold or whatever he wants to put as outcome on the day).

Then another letter of instructions on what to do and where to go (Homeless dept of your Council) just to help her out and know he's done all he can. She'll become their problem once she gets there.

The whole scheme wasn't properly planned and thought out. I wonder if the Uk was so keen to be involved as Ukrainians are " like us"

That's what I think too.

Please do quote the post, so we can see what you are responding to

No one needs to quote the orignal post two posts in. It's a huge headache. Totally unnecessary.

its fine, I find it helpful, lots of people do, it isn't up to any one to tell other poster s how to post

In what way is it helpful to quote the original post two posts in?

@malachitegreen

Tricky. I live in Belgium where the benefits are generous but housing very difficult to find when they leave the host. Plus Belgium started insisting they attend French/Dutch lessons. I’ve hosted quite a few Ukrainians. Everyone who asked me said they would be glad to help in the house and not one of them have apart from the v sweet students. I wasn’t welcoming for home help so it’s not a deal breaker. They are kind of drifty.and a lot of that is due to understandable preoccupation with what’s happening back home. I took to hiding a couple of coffee capsules for busy days working as they’d use the last of everything. They were afraid of being without, being out in a foreign country.You seem very adjusted Op. I can understand your frustration but think you will have to help her find a place and move. She will likely still need you from time to time with things like help with paperwork.

And don’t forget you feel very vulnerable not speaking the language and responsible for a young child.

I think @Anonym00se 's post has some excellent advice. I haven't hosted but a friend did - a mother and teenage child - and reached a point where it was starting to cause problems for her own family. They spoke to the mother well in advance of her moving out and supported her literally every step of the way - working with the local co-ordinator, helping her to find some work, helping her to apply for council housing, getting furniture donations or cheap items for her, continuing to support her once they moved. It was hard but, as other PPs have said, she framed it as: We have loved having you as our guest, but we can't host you any longer. And made it clear that it wasn't abandonment, but they didn't budge on the end date.
The only issue they've had is that the council house was in a different catchment area for the DC. They could have stayed at their school (with council funded taxi), but took a long leave of absence and so lost their place.
If your bf wants to ask her to move out, he has to handle it (though I imagine you may be acting as a translator here, which complicates things?) Maybe go out when he has the conversation?

Why can't she work full time? Then she could afford rent. If she's capable of working full time she should be doing it. There is so much wrong with the benefits system. If healthy adults want to only work 16 hours a week that's up to them but the rest of us shouldn't have to fund it. It's so wrong and I'm sick of it.

I know several people who took in Ukrainians, and every single one of them had issues at the end of the original agreed period. It's extremely hard to tell someone to leave, and it's understandable that the person hosted is reluctant to go. It was a major source of stress. In one case the hosts were a quote elderly couple. The agreed six months turned out to be hard for them as their hosts were a mother and husband son. The son was eating them out of house and home and they struggled with his noise etc. But they ended up having them for a year because they felt so bad about telling them to go. And it was only when the male host had severe health issues (not helped by the stress, I suspect) that a neighbour took it in hand and spoke to the guests, and called the council.