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Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

587 replies

PupInAPram · 22/06/2024 20:15

@pleasehelpwi3 said it best.

Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?
OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Lovelyview · 22/06/2024 23:22

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:20

Yes we’d rather tell women to stay away from men than tell men to stop hurting women

We've been telling men to stop hurting women for a very long time. I'll do you a deal. When you stop men raping women I'll stop going on about female only spaces.

DialSquare · 22/06/2024 23:23

MEN, STOP HURTING WOMEN!!!!!

There, I've told them. We should all be safe now.

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:23

SnakesAndArrows · 22/06/2024 23:13

Oh come off it. And who the fuck mentioned elderly care? I’m talking about young profoundly disabled women like Hen Freeman (google her) who do not want to be cared for by people with penises, and who is vilified as a bigot by halfwits.

Educate yourself.

No, I’m not an expert on any disabled care and I don’t want to be.i have no opinion on this and I don’t want to be goaded into it.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 22/06/2024 23:23

Lovelyview · 22/06/2024 23:22

We've been telling men to stop hurting women for a very long time. I'll do you a deal. When you stop men raping women I'll stop going on about female only spaces.

Yes

fucking centuries, not worked so far

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:24

Lovelyview · 22/06/2024 23:22

We've been telling men to stop hurting women for a very long time. I'll do you a deal. When you stop men raping women I'll stop going on about female only spaces.

Women have. They haven’t. The men haven’t. The men are the problem.

DrNickedMaCorpus · 22/06/2024 23:25

DialSquare · 22/06/2024 23:23

MEN, STOP HURTING WOMEN!!!!!

There, I've told them. We should all be safe now.

Yay! Thank you DialSquare!

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/06/2024 23:25

No argument there @SergeantDawkins

Zwicky · 22/06/2024 23:25

Never understood the “it only affects 0.1%” (or whatever % someone has pulled out of there arse) when women are 51% of the population. It actually affects 100% of the population as it will eliminate same sex spaces for men and whilst there isn’t the same danger of sexual violence from women towards men etc. men and boys still value male only space. Men famously and effectively removed women from the mens pond at Hampstead, whereas the old women’s pond is now mixed (affecting 100% of the women who use it, or used to use it).

Trans women are not predators any more than gay men are.

Even If that were true, gay men aren’t allowed access to women’s only spaces any more than other men so what’s the point? Gay men don’t enter women’s sporting completions on the basis of their sexuality. Gay men would have to claim to be women in order to do that, just like the straight and bisexual blokes have to. Gay men are a particular group within the category of “men” - they aren’t women.

Labour are “supposed” to look after the most vulnerable. It’s an expectation that people have of them that they don’t have of conservative governments. The people most negatively affected by the erosion of women’s rights are women who lack power in other areas - poor women, uneducated women, incarcerated women, homeless womes, immigrant women, disabled women, elderly women. Posh blokes handwringing about “dignity” and “inclusivity” for men whilst being perfectly happy for a female 19yo drug addicted, homeless, care leaver to share a cell with a convicted male rapist can do one. We all know who they intend to have “dignity” and it isn’t anyone female. Why else would they keep screeching “but why don’t you care about a totally different issue, you toxic harpies”? This myth that women’s prisons becoming mixed sex is only an issue for middle aged, middle class white women is, frankly, ridiculous. Poor, under-educated and minority ethnic women are hugely over represented in prison. But if you give a shit about it then it’s all “omg why don’t you even care about poverty and education and racism???” I’m going to be moaned at by people saying prisons are a niche issue and I should care about something else (but not healthcare, social care, sports, public spaces, crisis facilities, support groups, women only shortlists and prizes, gyms, leisure facilities, changing facilities, schools of toilets)
The current mess has been created by the conservative government - but they at least now, in 2024, are answering the question they have been asked “sex is biological” and “adult human female”. Kier can’t answer the question, which says more about him than answering it could ever do. He came across as a massive misogynist wanker on the leaders question time. No wonder women who could have held their noses and voted labour before it are considering simply vomiting on their ballot papers now.

NoWordForFluffy · 22/06/2024 23:26

DialSquare · 22/06/2024 23:23

MEN, STOP HURTING WOMEN!!!!!

There, I've told them. We should all be safe now.

God knows why nobody thought of this before!

DrNickedMaCorpus · 22/06/2024 23:26

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:24

Women have. They haven’t. The men haven’t. The men are the problem.

Knew you'd get there in the end!

Lovelyview · 22/06/2024 23:26

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:24

Women have. They haven’t. The men haven’t. The men are the problem.

Men made laws telling men it was illegal to rape women. It didn't stop men raping women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/06/2024 23:27

Brilliant post @Zwicky

CountZacular · 22/06/2024 23:28

@SergeantDawkins If you’d indulge me, I’d really like to know what a ‘woman’ is in terms of gender and how would I know if I am one? I saw the ‘person who irons’ description and I don’t iron so I’m suddenly quite confused.

And if ‘female’ is the word for sex, is there a word to differentiate between other animals - say like calling a female sheep a ewe. What would we call a female adult human?

Bunnyasmyname · 22/06/2024 23:29

It's not a single issue vote either as it affects so much more.... Sports healthcare, safeguarding.

SnakesAndArrows · 22/06/2024 23:31

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:23

No, I’m not an expert on any disabled care and I don’t want to be.i have no opinion on this and I don’t want to be goaded into it.

Edited

But you do have an opinion, don’t you? You think women who want same sex care are disgusting.

edited for clarity

BIossomtoes · 22/06/2024 23:39

Bunnyasmyname · 22/06/2024 23:29

It's not a single issue vote either as it affects so much more.... Sports healthcare, safeguarding.

It doesn’t affect 3 million children living in poverty, 8 million in NHS waiting lists, rape being effectively decriminalised, overflowing prisons, the threat of sending people to Rwanda, filthy rivers … the list of stuff it doesn’t affect is endless.

FOJN · 22/06/2024 23:39

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 23:23

No, I’m not an expert on any disabled care and I don’t want to be.i have no opinion on this and I don’t want to be goaded into it.

Edited

You're a champion for the vulnerable but only certain types of vulnerable people.

It's not a complicated question and doesn't require any particular expertise.

Do you think women should be able to ask for a female (of the xx chromosome variety) carer/HCP for intimate care/procedures?

CountZacular · 22/06/2024 23:40

I don’t understand this persistence that anger towards Labour’s stance on women’s rights means voting Tories or Reform. Many (not all) of the women here have been disenfranchised precisely because they are left leaning voters. This single issue might stop women voting for Labour but it isn’t going to make up all jump over to the right wing parties. Over my voting years I’ve either voted Labour or Lib Dems (but they are so far gone regarding women’s rights I won’t be going near then).

I agree with the stance that JKR is actually trying to get Labour to engage and throw their support in with women now, rather than trying to convince potential Labour voters to go elsewhere.

I’m also interested in the stance of ‘problematic single issue voters’. I’ve said this before, but for many TRAs they won’t actually vote Labour because they don’t go far enough into trans rights for them - so are they a problem too? Are the many pro-Palestine supporters who refuse to vote for Labour due to KS’ lack of comments a problem? Is it all single issues and all sides the vote or not?

Lemontulle · 22/06/2024 23:43

The biggest problem transwomen have is their own maleness. It causes them great misery and in some cases to have complicated, difficult surgery and take lots of medications.

Women also have a problem with the maleness of transwomen, because transwomen are being encouraged to go into spaces where women are vulnerable, as if they were just another woman, but transwomen are male (see above), and maleness, full stop (not just in transwomen) is correlated statistically with increased risk to women.

What we have now is a situation where, because transwomen themselves can't bear to think about or refer to their own maleness, other people, including women, aren't allowed to either. Women therefore aren't allowed to describe this particular subset of males as males, even though they themselves and everyone around them know perfectly well that they are males.

In lots of ordinary minor social situations there's no need to refer to the maleness of transwomen even if it's blindingly obvious, and it's courteous not to. But when making decisions for women as a whole, e.g. about who should be allowed into prisons with us, who can compete with us in sport and so on, we have to be able to use accurate, truthful language and describe this particular set of male people as male.

SergeantDawkins - I get it, years ago I used to think that calling a transwoman male was the worst and most horrible insult, and surely no one should do that?! But the problem is that not being able to accurately describe a male person as male puts women in a very difficult position. The reasoning behind single-sex spaces staying single sex is to protect women, specifically from dangerous males. The reasoning behind transwomen staying out of those spaces is not because they're trans but because they're male. No amount of saying "but transwomen are women" erases that maleness, much as they wish it would.

DuesToTheDirt · 22/06/2024 23:43

SergeantDawkins · 22/06/2024 22:52

Not the right to compete in sport, visit a swimming pool or try on clothes, apparently.

Oh do give over. Transwomen can compete in any sport they like (competing with men), go to swimming pools (as long as they don't use the women's changing rooms or attend women-only sessions). And try on clothes? Are you serious? Of course they can try on clothes, IN THE MEN'S CHANGING ROOMS.

But you didn't say what you meant, did you? You want transwomen to have the right to do things that other MEN are not permitted to do.

User3456 · 22/06/2024 23:51

Anyone who thinks the Tories are feminists and are planning to protect women's rights have got a shock coming. This is just a convenient culture war they like to stoke as a way to have a go at Labour.

Rishi Sunak isn't bothered about anything but his bank balance. See how bothered he is about women's rights when he continues the privatisation of the NHS, does nothing about climate change, sends our kids off for national service, starts blaming disabled people for not being able to work and starts issuing vouchers instead of payments (in the middle of an ongoing pandemic that he's also doing nothing about btw). Then there's some Tories who want to take us out of the ECHR - what will that do for women's rights do you think? Some are talking about bringing back the death penalty - helpful to women's rights? A resounding no.

Don't trust them. Vote them OUT.

RufustheFactualReindeer · 22/06/2024 23:54

I’m also interested in the stance of ‘problematic single issue voters’. I’ve said this before, but for many TRAs they won’t actually vote Labour because they don’t go far enough into trans rights for them - so are they a problem too? Are the many pro-Palestine supporters who refuse to vote for Labour due to KS’ lack of comments a problem? Is it all single issues and all sides the vote or not?

ive asked before and never received an answer

If one of the parties was going to revoke same sex marriages but was really good on absolutely everything else would it be ok for me to NOT vote for them on that one issue

but thats a problem yeah?

WomensRightsRenegade · 22/06/2024 23:59

Doingtheboxerbeat · 22/06/2024 20:43

I agree with you OP 💯 - I live in a high crime area with so much poverty - this issue is so far from my radar, I literally can't worry about this in my life.

With all those issues going on, shouldn’t the madness of gender ideology be far from Labour’s radar too?

RufustheFactualReindeer · 23/06/2024 00:00

WomensRightsRenegade · 22/06/2024 23:59

With all those issues going on, shouldn’t the madness of gender ideology be far from Labour’s radar too?

No

it is simultaneously really important and not important at all

WomensRightsRenegade · 23/06/2024 00:04

RufustheFactualReindeer · 22/06/2024 23:54

I’m also interested in the stance of ‘problematic single issue voters’. I’ve said this before, but for many TRAs they won’t actually vote Labour because they don’t go far enough into trans rights for them - so are they a problem too? Are the many pro-Palestine supporters who refuse to vote for Labour due to KS’ lack of comments a problem? Is it all single issues and all sides the vote or not?

ive asked before and never received an answer

If one of the parties was going to revoke same sex marriages but was really good on absolutely everything else would it be ok for me to NOT vote for them on that one issue

but thats a problem yeah?

This.

No one would ever dream of telling black or gay people to think of the NHS and climate change if their rights were being eviscerated.

In fact we were told racism was a pandemic, when people gathered in their thousands during the most draconian period of Covid restrictions, following the death of George Floyd.

Misogyny - the deepest and oldest ‘pandemic’ of them all - never gets a look in.

Remember misogyny hasn’t been made a hate crime, despite leading to more violence and murder than all other types of bigotry combined, because not only would it have to include our appropriators, but because it would keep the police so busy around the clock that they would never have time to deal with anything else.

But women are the only group who will happily vote for their own demise