To explain that exercise does not affect your weight, or impact on obesity rates

[allmyown]

I see this misconception all over MN every day.

Exercise is fantastic for your physical and mental health in many ways, but it is not a weight loss tool.

Posters are forever quoting energy in -minus energy out = energy stored, etc, as if we are petrol engines or something! we are not - this is not how our body works.

It is more like energy available / energy required to maintain weight= energy body decides to use.

Your body burns off excess energy if you are taking in more than your homeostatic systems think you need. Your body slows down and uses far less energy if you have taken in less than your homeostatic system thinks you need.

And so if you lose weight, and go below what your body wants you to be, then your metabolism will just slow down massively to make the weight go back on. And if you exercise a lot, your metabolism will just adjust to accommodate that.

The key to weight loss is making sure your homeostatic systems decide you should be a healthy weight. You can lower the weight your homeostatic systems is attempting to maintain, with healthy eating, cut out sugar, HPF, vegetable oil, margarine, and cut down on wheat.

Eat plenty of fresh food and greens, nothing long dated.

Unless you are running 10K every single day, you are not exercising enough to change your weight, and even if you are, it won't stay changed.

The obesity epidemic is related to sugar, highly processed food, vegetable oil, margarine, etc, and poor diet in general, not too little exercise.

But don't get me wrong, there are other health problems caused by too little exercise, I am not saying exercise is bad, just that an obese child is not necessarily a child getting inadequate exercise, as so many people seem to think.

Read "Why we eat too much" by Andrew Jenkinson, he explains the up to date science in so much more detail.

200ml of double cream doesn't sound like much of a challenge really.

Yeah it’s not for some people - I was watching an old episode of secret eaters on YouTube recently. A woman drowned her little slice of apple pie -which wasn’t even that high in calories by itself - in double cream and when they did the meal analysis i can’t remember how many calories it was but it wasn’t far off 800 calories.

i recently discovered I like dates. Great I thought, nice little snack.

only they’re about 100 cals each after I’ve added a bit of peanut butter. I’d have 4 at a time.

yes they kept me full and were satisfying. But no wonder I was not losing weight as I was having 4-800 cals a day in dates swapping out my normal snacks, so increasing my daily calories by about 600!

I've never seen a fat athlete.

Oh come now…

Yeah I’ve been caught out by dates before too! And peanut butter😏 I used to spread a thick layer on to a couple of slices of toast as a snack and think I was being so healthy. So many of the foods I think of as quite healthy are surprisingly high in calories which is annoying.

I stopped buying almonds as I found them so moreish which wasn’t great for weight loss since just a couple of handfuls was a few hundred calories.

70 calories in 10 almonds. It’s a great ‘snack’ and will do so much more for you than a bag of Skips for example. I tend to eat them with my lunch.
https://www.wolfson.cam.ac.uk/news/every-calorie-count-you-see-everywhere-wrong-dr-giles-yeo-outdated-calorie-system#:~:text=“For%20every%20one%20hundred%20calories,to%20be%20lost%20as%20heat.
Plus it’s a protein so you don’t absorb all the calories. READ THIS!

Do you ever think of people are hyper focused on what they eat and perhaps if people relaxed a little more around food and exercises a little they might find a bit of balance. I am sure there is probably something in a lot of these books but I worry if it leads to obsessive behaviour that in itself can lead to over eating. I have friends who go from one diet to another - from fasting to low carb to whatever else is on offer with no obvious changes on weight over the years. I think it's our thinking that needs to change more than our diet.

Do you ever think of people are hyper focused on what they eat and perhaps if people relaxed a little more around food and exercises a little they might find a bit of balance.

@Jewel1968, I agree...sort of but you can't blame people as food is an absolutely fascinating subject. Decades ago I lost weight on a low carb high protein diet. When I plateaued I just did low carb, high protein in conjunction with reducing calories. That really worked! From them I generally ate lower carb.

However, I gradually put weight on after becoming a mother and wanting to have normal family meals which included every food group. I tried the low carb high protein again with very limited success. Ditto reducing the calories. Ditto intermittent fasting.

Thing is I think I was pretty sedentary. You don't need much of the energy value of food (my age and weight I need about 1500 calories a day to maintain if sedentary!).

Yet everyone needs the nutrition! Get that in 1500 calories a day!?! So yes, exercise is good in terms of supporting nutrition too because it affords you an energy expenditure which allows a greater variety of foodstuffs. And that is before you count the circulatory, cardiovascular, mobility, mental health and strength and flexibility benefits.o

@Jewel1968 That certainly rings true for me but I have a history of disordered eating and anorexia so I have no clue what is normal when it comes to food. Part of my disorder compels me to learn everything and anything I can about nutrition and weight loss so I know what is healthy but I don't understand what "normal" eating is. I've never eaten normally. I bounce between extreme binging and extreme restriction.

The best I ever felt was a couple of months ago when I decided I wasn't going to "diet" I was going to "eat like a normal person" and weight loss would be a side effect rather than the main goal. Given that my only reference for "normal" was MN where people chronically undereat and call themselves greedy (no, bitch, you are not eating less than 1000 calories a day and feeling healthy) I doubt I managed it but I did feel a lot more in control.

Unfortunately, I injured my knee and the GP refused to treat me for pain until I lost weight and prescribed me Orlistat with no support or guidance, so I'm back to restricting again. I have no idea what to eat, I only know if I make a mistake I might shit myself so I've gone back to my "diet" staples of salad, veg, and little else.

I do know when I binge I eat almost entirely UPF and I'm always hungry. When I restrict I eat almost entirely fresh, whole foods and I'm rarely hungry. IDK if that is because of the types of food I am eating or if it is because my ED is telling me I'm not hungry when I actually am.

I do know that I can't UPF in moderation.

I’ve just finished listening to that book, Why We Eat (Too Much) and found it interesting, though always have a bit of healthy scepticism with these things.

I’ve said many times before on these boards that even IF weight loss is about energy in vs energy out, that’s really only in the short term. I believe our bodies do fight back by lowering metabolism, increasing hunger and cravings and fixating on food because our bodies (well, brains) still can’t tell the difference between intentional weight loss and famine.

@Frequency hope your knee gets better soon. There is perhaps some exercise you still can do though. Many strength and resistance exercises should still be possible even with an injured knee. There are plenty on YouTube or if you join a gym they could show you some of the exercises you could do still.

Regarding food, maybe stick to cooking from fresh and 3 meals a day. Don't use oversized plates or have seconds. Batch cooking is good as any extra food is boxed up to be frozen straight away for extra meals which is an incentive not to overeat.

@BeretRaspberry,

I believe our bodies do fight back by lowering metabolism, increasing hunger and cravings and fixating on food because our bodies (well, brains) still can’t tell the difference between intentional weight loss and famine.

I think it's more complex than that. I can run fasted and experience no extra hunger pangs or low energy. I forget I've not eaten before. I have the same sized meals for the rest of the day. If you have good fat adaptation you can utilise your body fat for energy without 'hitting the wall'. Exercising at a particular intensity trains your body to do this more effectively. After all it's why we store fat, that is, in order to utilise the stored energy so we don't have to eat constantly!

I don’t disagree but you’re talking about normal, short term, fluctuations. People who consistently reduce their calories and increase exercise in order to lose weight (aka dieting) longer term will usually be affected by what I’ve said.

I’m the fattest I’ve ever been and shock, horror to the fat bashers that normally frequent MN (not you or anyone in particular on this thread), I also forget to eat at times and sometimes just cannot be bothered. I sometimes only eat because if I didn’t I’d end up with nausea, headaches etc. If I was still dieting, I can guarantee that wouldn’t be the case. I’d be hyperfixated on food.

@Frequency are you getting any help with your disordered eating. I think focusing on that might result on weight loss as a side effect. It's hard. I find it frustrating that so little is spoken about the psychology behind overeating and under exercising. Much harder to solve why we turn to food. Probably less money to be made on it too.

@BeretRaspberry

I don’t disagree but you’re talking about normal, short term, fluctuations. People who consistently reduce their calories and increase exercise in order to lose weight (aka dieting) longer term will usually be affected by what I’ve said.

Not my experience. In 2018 I began a process at eating at a deficit and running and lost 4 stone over 3 years. I have maintained that weight loss. I am in my 50s.

Regarding the training of your body to increase the body's effectiveness at burning fat look up MAF training.

@BeretRaspberry

I sometimes only eat because if I didn’t I’d end up with nausea, headaches etc.

As I say I can run fasted (10k usually). I run everyday, although not always fasted. It's good to be able to though because if I eat breakfast I need to give it a good amount of time to settle. No headaches, no nausea running fasted. I then don't eat until lunch. I love good food and do eat and enjoy a good variety of it. I'm very rarely 'ravenous' now, though, in my normal day life. I believe it's because my body is well practiced at burning fat and can do this efficiently so I don't hit the energy slump as readily.

I think weight control via food intake control only, while obviously possible, is extremely difficult and it takes very little to torpedo your gains (that one glass of wine, that one bit of birthday cake someone brought into work, that one can of fizzy drink etc). I would say that my diet is probably about 85% healthy, by that I mean lots of veg, fruit, pulses, fish, little to no red meat, lots of water, zero processed foods and cooking from scratch etc. However, my Achillies heel is cheese, dark chocolate, wine and the occasional curry. I can get away with consuming the latter stuff now and again because I do fuck ton of exercise. That curry is probably is probably 1500 calories, a huge amount in one sitting, I can eat it guilt free because I probably burned that many calories training. I love the latitude exercise gives me insofar as being able to occasionally blow out. You simply cant do that on a calorie controlled only diet with no exercise. That curry would have undone all your carefully won gains during the week. That one large cookie will undo your carefully prepared breakfast, lunch and dinner for that day. Diets are hard, usually very boring and usually fail. Chuck in some proper regular exercise and you buy yourself leeway as well as getting all the other benefits of being ‘fit’. I do get quite passionate about this as I get absolutely fed up on here with the amount of times I read ‘exercise does not work’ type of sentiments. To me the term exercise has been dumbed down to the point where walking to the shops is now ‘exercise’. Government backed health campaigns of 3 x 20 mins a week is woefully inadequate.

I've not asked for support, and I don't think the GPs are reading my notes. I lost 6kg in a little over 3 weeks do he gave me more Orlistat, told me well done and that I didn't need to come back for another 3 months 🙄

The logical part of my brain knows nothing will change until I ask for help, but is also worried that I'll be laughed at asking for help for ED when I'm overweight and thinks I need to wait. The anorexic me thinks we're doing just fine, thanks, and should probably start exercising more because 6kg in 3 weeks is not enough.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

You’re likely one of the minority then. It’s That doesn’t happen for most people. Otherwise there’d be no diet industry.

Though I am pleased for you - it must feel good.

I only know a very limited amount about MAF, though it’s interesting too. Sadly, due to having ME/CFS, sometimes just standing up can cause my HR to increase to that of someone non ill exercising!

@TheCadoganArms

To me the term exercise has been dumbed down to the point where walking to the shops is now ‘exercise'

I agree with what you say apart from the above statement. Walking is exercise and very useful. It's so accessible for a lot of people! Plus my 5k walked burns roughly the same as running 5k. Maybe a little more because running tends to be more efficient. Walking just takes longer!😁 I do add in an hours walk a day though because it is so easy to do so and why not? It still has circulatory, cardiovascular, mental health and mobility benefits. In COVID lockdown I prioritised running over walking and actually found myself weirdly uncoordinated when I started walking more again!😮 I think we need not to be too elitist about types of exercise. They do different things, yes but all beneficial.

@BeretRaspberry, sorry to hear that. Your MAF would just be different to my MAF. So just do whatever activity you are able to. I learnt to run after recovering from cancer treatment with occasional sciatica too. So don't give up hope.

To me the term exercise has been dumbed down to the point where walking to the shops is now ‘exercise'

But that very much can be proper exercise, depending on how far it is and as long as you don't walk really slowly.

I think weight control via food intake control only, while obviously possible, is extremely difficult and it takes very little to torpedo your gains (that one glass of wine, that one bit of birthday cake someone brought into work, that one can of fizzy drink etc)

I do very little exercise at the moment, unfortunately. I started intermittent fasting a few weeks ago and my clothes are already less tight, especially around the waist. I don't really watch what I eat, but I don't eat between 8pm and 12 noon the next day (so I skip breakfast). If I want cake, I have cake.