To explain that exercise does not affect your weight, or impact on obesity rates

[allmyown]

I see this misconception all over MN every day.

Exercise is fantastic for your physical and mental health in many ways, but it is not a weight loss tool.

Posters are forever quoting energy in -minus energy out = energy stored, etc, as if we are petrol engines or something! we are not - this is not how our body works.

It is more like energy available / energy required to maintain weight= energy body decides to use.

Your body burns off excess energy if you are taking in more than your homeostatic systems think you need. Your body slows down and uses far less energy if you have taken in less than your homeostatic system thinks you need.

And so if you lose weight, and go below what your body wants you to be, then your metabolism will just slow down massively to make the weight go back on. And if you exercise a lot, your metabolism will just adjust to accommodate that.

The key to weight loss is making sure your homeostatic systems decide you should be a healthy weight. You can lower the weight your homeostatic systems is attempting to maintain, with healthy eating, cut out sugar, HPF, vegetable oil, margarine, and cut down on wheat.

Eat plenty of fresh food and greens, nothing long dated.

Unless you are running 10K every single day, you are not exercising enough to change your weight, and even if you are, it won't stay changed.

The obesity epidemic is related to sugar, highly processed food, vegetable oil, margarine, etc, and poor diet in general, not too little exercise.

But don't get me wrong, there are other health problems caused by too little exercise, I am not saying exercise is bad, just that an obese child is not necessarily a child getting inadequate exercise, as so many people seem to think.

Read "Why we eat too much" by Andrew Jenkinson, he explains the up to date science in so much more detail.

@Mrspenfold123

All I was saying is that dieting AND doing lots of cardio simultaneously might crash your metabolism so might not help in the long run with sustainable weight loss. Fuel your cardio sessions and maintain muscle mass.

I think I might have broken your rules, though.

I lost weight by running every day ( building up to 10 k a day) and eating at a deficit. I also regularly run fasted.

The thing is not all cardio is equal. I don't run fast. I run at a 'niko niko' or MAF intensity. The hormones released at this type of intensity are different to those released with faster running. Training using slower running is designed to maximise aerobic function. It develops the slow twitch muscles. I have maintained my weight loss (4 stone) for 6 years. I do do strength and flexibility training too in order to prevent injury.

And yes, running does certainly tone muscles. I have very visible muscle tone on my legs from running. Visible abs came when I started doing specific resistance exercises (although more visible than when I used to do those without running) and on arms from doing weights.

I just think this area of nutrition and weight loss is extremely poorly understood and I generally hate the representation of most scientific studies in the media. That's volumes of information compressed into a couple of inches of column space often by someone with either an agenda (book sales) or a poor grasp of the subject itself (the general press). Like the red wine good, red wine bad nonsense.

Exercise works for OH. She went full sedentary and put on about a pretty bloated looking 20+kg. (From approx 50 to approx 70) She diet controlled a few kilos off very slowly then returned to a fairly intense exercise regime (bodyweight and climbing stuff) and has lost 12kg pretty quickly. She now eats more and is continuing to lose body fat

I'm very confused by all this and most pps say it's not their lived experience.

Can anyone point me in the direction of any articles/ studies/ news reports proving/disproving this?

(Not sure if I've missed a ppl with this info- sorry if I have!!)

https://www.sportsperformancebulletin.com/injuries-health/endurance-health--lifestyle/metabolic-rate-and-exercise

This is quite an interesting article summarising some of the newer research.

How do you go about lowering you weight set point?

Thanks for this thread, op. It's certainly very interesting!

I felt you had something of value to say until you told me the "answer" is a restrictive diet from the '90s.

Can I suggest eating a variety of foods especially grains and not see things such as wheat or sugar as "bad"? I can assure you that I can lose weight and still eat homemade cake.

And you failed to mention the real "baddies" such as coconut or palm oil which are laden in saturated fat.

@Somethingsnappy,

How do you go about lowering you weight set point?

I am not sure there is one answer.

Exercise was certainly part of lowering my weight and I have maintained for 6 years now. Most recently to that when I had tried before with just the healthy eating and no extra exercise and it wasn't enough to do it.

My new set point is the same weight as I was in the 80s when I was 16. I'm the same size now as my 16 year old self- modern size 8 (80s size 12). I am in my 50s.

I had lost weight decades ago on a high protein low carb diet. However once you are fat adapted, I personally think, this hack works less well as body fat and dietary fat can be utilised for energy instead of being excreted as ketones.

Would it be nice to normalise a plate full of food with no added emulsifiers, thickeners, preservatives, colourings, sweetners or artificial flavourings? YES, yes, a thousand times yes! And without excessive levels of sugar or fat? Yes!

But the "food" industry has nailed the right levels of sweet, salt & fat to make their products utterly addictive, reducing 'full' hormone production and increasing 'I need to eat' hormone production very effectively.

Reducing availability/intake of these "food" products will be the only answer to the population level obesity crisis in the end - but exercise also has to be part of the picture to keep everybody HEALTHY, not just smaller

That's at the heart of the matter, but as a couple of recent threads on UPF have shown, so many people are still oblivious or deny the their harmful effects. 'Everything in moderation' they'll say - except in practice, their 'moderation' may well equate to 40-60% (or more...) of their and their children's diet consisting of UPF.

Exercise is inadequate or hardly features in many people's lives. We can debate the magnitude of the effect of exercise on weight loss till the cows come home, but surely no one can deny that regular exercise helps to keep us fit and healthy. That's before we get to it's mood enhancing and motivational effects - which not everyone exerpiences but can be powerful. Often it is just a question of finding the right type of exercise - one that is at least tolerable and fits in with one's lifestyle. (If Caroline Girvan is too much, try Yoga with Kassandra...)

@pollymere I don't view saturated fat as bad in and of itself. It's when it is coupled with high body insulin levels it becomes more problematic.

For me, and this is my personal observation, not from research or any sort of data.

i will go fairly low calorie, about 1200 a day, until I get to an arbitrary weight. Usually a half stone or stone marker. I will often take advantage of a plateau, and increase my calories until I am holding steady at that marker. Once it becomes easier to maintain that weight at a maintenance calorie load, that’s my new set point. I’ll often increase exercise here, as increase in activity drives my appetite so maintenance calories are easier than a deficit.

the cut calories for the next stone/half stone. Rinse and repeat.

I am not sure I am convinced, but agree it isn’t quite as simple as calories in calories out. I agree reducing sugar and upf is hugely important for health, although people don’t always realise alcohol is sugar…. But why cut out wheat, wheat is in healthy fibre rich foods such as rye bread and wholemeal pasta. Wheat is a natural product, unbleached whole grain flours etc can form part of a healthy diet balanced diet.

And yet Serena Williams was world no.1 in tennis and not thin.

@Gwenhwyfar Serena Williams has never been fat either! She's always been phenomenally powerful & muscular, but I think her body fat was 20% or less the whole time she was competing. Most of us can only dream of that!!!

But still not thin.
I grant you that she is a tennis player rather than a sprinter or something.

Tennis players typically eat 3000-5000 calories a day. I guarantee someone eating the same and not partaking in intense training would not look like Serena Williams.

She is far, far from being overweight. She might not be "thin" as in skinny but she is very healthy.

saturated fat isn't really a problem of itself (palm oil is obviously a different type of serious problem!)

The people who started off the rumours that saturated fat is bad for you were paid by the sugar industry

If you want a full answer, I am still recommending "Why we eat too much" and "How to eat" by Andrew Jenkinson. He does summarise all the recent knowledge and understanding very well, and links to all the studies he is using, so you can look them up yourself if you want to

I'm pretty sure the last dietician/scientist/weightloss expert who touted the benefits of saturated fats died from a heart attack.

As upsetting as it is, the answer really is calories in vs calories out, and eat saturated fats, sugars, and processed foods in moderation.

As upsetting as it is, the answer really is calories in vs calories out, and eat saturated fats, sugars, and processed foods in moderation.

It really isn't as simple, as the debate on this thread shows. Weight gain/loss is multifactorial and there are lots of individual variations.

Eating 'saturated fats, sugars, and processed foods in moderation' really depends on the definition of moderation. I strongly believe that these foods should never form more than a tiny part of a healthy diet.

Not quite true. I've lost weight by simply switching from driving to taking the train to work. That added about 1 hour walk per day. Lost 7kgs this way in about an year without even trying. Diet pretty much the same. I was very sedentary before. Driving door to door and sitting at the desk all day long. It surprised myself. I wasn't massively overweight. BMI was 26 now back to normal range

It is a lot more nuanced than that, I agree, but unless you are a bodybuilder or elite athlete, then calories in vs calories out will work to maintain or lower your weight.

You could eat 1000 calories of Haribo a day and be severely underweight if that is all you ate. You'd feel and look like shit but you would not be obese.

Saturated fats are often found in foods that are good for us in moderation because as well as the fat they contain other essential nutrients eg iron in red meat, calcium in cheese, and dairy. Ditto natural sugars found in fruits and some veg. Minimally processed foods such as porridge, wholewheat breads, rice, and pasta also have micronutrients that benefit us as part of a balanced diet.

I agree that UPF isn't needed but it is also unlikely to cause you any serious issues if it is eaten in moderation alongside healthy whole foods. Even the author of Ultra Processed People divulges in UPF from time to time and allows his children to eat them too.

Yes, but I was at my highest weight ever when I walked 40 minutes to work and back every day. It's easy to out eat regular walking.

@allmyown, you recommend books but have you had any personal success using the methods they advocate?

A lot of posters have talked about how they successfully manage their own weight including exercise.

How successful have you personally been with your newly acquired knowledge?