To explain that exercise does not affect your weight, or impact on obesity rates

[allmyown]

I see this misconception all over MN every day.

Exercise is fantastic for your physical and mental health in many ways, but it is not a weight loss tool.

Posters are forever quoting energy in -minus energy out = energy stored, etc, as if we are petrol engines or something! we are not - this is not how our body works.

It is more like energy available / energy required to maintain weight= energy body decides to use.

Your body burns off excess energy if you are taking in more than your homeostatic systems think you need. Your body slows down and uses far less energy if you have taken in less than your homeostatic system thinks you need.

And so if you lose weight, and go below what your body wants you to be, then your metabolism will just slow down massively to make the weight go back on. And if you exercise a lot, your metabolism will just adjust to accommodate that.

The key to weight loss is making sure your homeostatic systems decide you should be a healthy weight. You can lower the weight your homeostatic systems is attempting to maintain, with healthy eating, cut out sugar, HPF, vegetable oil, margarine, and cut down on wheat.

Eat plenty of fresh food and greens, nothing long dated.

Unless you are running 10K every single day, you are not exercising enough to change your weight, and even if you are, it won't stay changed.

The obesity epidemic is related to sugar, highly processed food, vegetable oil, margarine, etc, and poor diet in general, not too little exercise.

But don't get me wrong, there are other health problems caused by too little exercise, I am not saying exercise is bad, just that an obese child is not necessarily a child getting inadequate exercise, as so many people seem to think.

Read "Why we eat too much" by Andrew Jenkinson, he explains the up to date science in so much more detail.

Only all the evidence disagrees.

exercise builds muscle which increases metabolism, separate from actually burning calories.

the “study” o/p posted shows that two different populations burn the same calories. There’s no evidence that within the same population those that exercise burn the same calories as those that don’t.

if exercise caused “starvation mode” as you’re saying we’d see a lot of fat Olympians.

You are a little bit unreasonable.

Exercising helps me stay on track with what I ingest. It keeps me striving for my goals.

But you are absolutely correct, you can't eat a 350 kcal slice of cake and nix it by burning 350kcal in the gym.

Van Tulleken cites a research that showed that base metabolism has a ceiling in humans. A scientist found that American desk workers who are sedentary had the same-ish needs as tribal people who walk 16 miles a day. They don't really know why but humans seem to all plateau around the 2000/2500 kcal range.

This is obviously incorrect. Muscle burns calories. Increasing muscle mass means increased calorie consumption by our body, hence increased metabolism, aka fat loss.

This

Apart from having read this very interesting book OP, please can you let us know what qualifications or expertise you have to give advice on weight loss?

Look I found this about the Hazda

Adult Hadza women (aged 18–60) were 150.7 cm tall and weighed 46 kg on average. Men (aged 20–60) were 160.6 cm tall and weighed 51.3 kg

This the real reason why they don't need more calories than sedentary Americans. Its not because exercise doesn't increase energy expenditure, its because they are very small and don't weigh much.

Exercise helps the body work more effectively. You can actually train your body to be better at burning fat for energy instead of signalling you need to stop and rest. People who are not 'fat adapted' ( practised and efficient at burning fat) will hit a wall once glycogen stores have been utilised for energy. They then will need to stop and rest and eat. Which doesn't utilise fat stores. Fat is stored for a reason! It is our store of fuel which can be utilised. Exercise can put the body in a situation whereby we utilise that stored fat. Look at the way MAF training works. 😉

www.coached.fitness/blogs/maf-training/

Except Olympic athletes consume far more calories daily than that and yet remain slim and healthy.

Except Olympic athletes consume far more calories daily than that and yet remain slim and healthy.

@MrsSunshine2b, I suspect because they can utilise their fat stores readily and efficiently. It's part and parcel of aerobic fitness.

I don't know why the very simple and obvious explanation, that they burn the calories they consume, is so difficult to grasp.

BTW I lost 4 stone over 3 years a few years ago. I learnt to run and run 10k a day, generally at a MAF rate. I also walk 5k a day. I am 50 and carry 23% body fat according to my body composition scales. My starting point was over 40% body fat. To lose weight I did eat a deficit of calories but with the exercise it meant I could eat a reasonable amount as opposed to eating a very restrictive diet.

Can I ask if you're a Dietician, or just writing what you have read somewhere? You sound clued in.

I ask because I agree with you. I am obese, but 2 weeks ago I had barriatric surgery.

I have done Weight Watchers, SlimmingWorld, Shakes, Keto (.Keto is best if you're diabetic along with Wegovy).

Exercise doesn't help you lose weight, but cardio can actually help you burn calories and lose weight. I think Cardio is only the real fat burning exercising you can do. I'm speaking from experience. Otherwise, exercise boosts your serotonin and makes you feel good about yourself. It shapes, tones, builds muscle so those of us whom are overweight will build muscles in our back and legs, enabling us to walk better, further, faster.

My lower back is quite weak and painful, but cardio and stretches my GP taught me have strengthened my back. It helped my skin, my mood, and inspired me to eat healthy. Alas, I was fed up of waiting for thr NHS and all the temporary weight loss drugs they were giving me, like a guinny pig.

I paid for the operation and I'm 2.5 stone down in 2 weeks.

Buy 1 Get 1 free on pizzas/Junk Food - Where is the buy 1 get 1 or 2 free on fruit and veg!?????

Just went down a rabbit hole and read a study. They did try to control for body size when comparing Hamza hunter gathers to sedentary Americans. However I still think they are not comparing like for like.

Hamza are already lean and are operating in a calorie restricted environment. It makes sense for them to perhaps sit quietly and rest after a spot of hunting or gathering to conserve energy.

An American athlete or keen exerciser has no such limits. They can eat enough to bounce around all day if they want. Still I bet they are slimer than your average American and burn more energy.

That would be the obvious comparsion to make. Exercising Americans versus non exercising Americans.

But we don't really need a study do we? We all know from our personal experience that the constantly sporty / jogging / hiking / cycling people tend not to be very overweight.

@MrsSunshine2b

I don't know why the very simple and obvious explanation, that they burn the calories they consume, is so difficult to grasp.

I think the op is referring to studies I've read myself. It's not exactly linear. The body can compensate for exercise during rest periods. Different types of exercise at different intensities also affect the body differently, release different hormones. This gives some insight.

www.championseverywhere.com/niko-niko-pace-gentle-path-success/

It's why people talk about overtraining which causes a cortisol release which can work against what someone might be attempting to achieve.

The other thing is building muscles mass means the body requires more energy to maintain that muscle mass. It makes sense in the evolutionary sense that we lose muscle if food is in short supply. It's why body builders need to 'feed' their muscle in order to maintain it.

So @allmyown, I'm with you for the most part & I've read all of your comments. But I can't see anywhere where you've explained how to lower your weight set point or increase your metabolism?

Because my strong understanding of that (especially for women) is that it comes from increasing muscle mass. Which comes from lifting weights (or using bodyweight) - which will then increase your proportion of lean muscle mass, increase your metabolic rate and improve your body's ability to burn calories. Therefore assisting with further loss of fat mass (and, generally, loosing weight - if you're not looking to simply tone up or bodybuild).

What are we calling 'using weights to improve your lean muscle mass' if we're not calling it "exercise"?

That's the bit I'm confused about!

Oh and regarding a high sugar etc diet the op refers to, I think if the body is used to this and craves this, it never utilises fat stores. Insulin release is effected and the body becomes insulin resistant. The body's systems are exhausted, the body releasing more and more insulin as the energy from the sugar is stored as fat (but not released from the fat stores) and the system is simply loaded with more sugar when available energy runs out.

Interesting thread and undoubtedly some good scientific arguments from some. That said I think in an open forum OP you’re being unreasonable since imo we’re already shafted at societal level by the suggestion that exercise should be an optional lifestyle choice. It’s fundamental that you cannot be healthy without some form of physical activity. Let’s not be apologists for those who want us to buy their books, subscribe to their websites, sign up for their courses etc. let’s instead set an example to all around us and make exercise in all of its forms part of a normal daily routine.
I’m not naive to how holier than thou the above sounds but it frightens me how much we’ve allowed our fundamental right to move to be diminished.

The missing link is that exercise can train the body to be better at burning fat through MAF (maximum aerobic function) training. Instead of hitting at wall it is possible to run 'fasted' as I do several times a week when I run before breakfast. I don't eat till lunch and don't feel ravenously hungry. My body can utilise my body fat and glycogen stores for energy. (I don't run fast) To run fast without eating you need to carb load to build up a glycogen store. Ultra marathon runners do most usually find they need to eat whilst running but some do tweak their training to find the most effective way to manage this.

instead set an example to all around us and make exercise in all of its forms part of a normal daily routine.

I agree @OhNoItsThePinkyPonk. Bodily systems which are not used very often can become inefficient. Muscles weaken, we can become stiff and inflexible and fitness wains. Not good for mobility or our cardiovascular and circulatory systems. And everything including the brain needs good blood circulation!

I agree. It's really not as black and white as the OP is making out. I followed MAF lifestyle for a long time. I'm 10Kg heavier than I was back then (menopause 😫) but the combination of diet, sleep, reduced stress and exercise really worked for me. But it was all of it, not just diet.

I also note that the OP is telling us they are right and anyone who thinks differently is wrong. How about some actual scientific evidence and references to peer reviewed research instead of just insisting you're right?

And if we evolved hunting that includes running long distances!😉 and gathering involves walking long distances. So running and walking is exercise at the most basic level really. Add in enough strength and flexibility training to make all the other everyday requisite movements you might need working and you should be able to keep up a functional level of mobility for longer in life.

I spent a year doing a very active job. I didn’t change my diet. I lost over a stone.

I have now gone back to an office job sitting at a desk and haven’t changed my diet. I am starting to put on weight.

How do you explain that using your theory that it has nothing to do with exercise?

Ok so the body is fed a high sugar diet and becomes insulin resistant. Right?

so a couple of things:

1. insulin causes the body to store glucose as fat. So if insulin can’t act due to resistance, what is triggering the fat storage?
2. assuming the body is storing fat, but never releasing it. You can’t break the laws of physics, so the body must be taking in more energy than it is using. That is nothing to do with insulin or what you’re eating, you’re taking in more energy than you expend, and storing the excess as fat. Are you saying that even if you eat in a calorie deficit, the body somehow stores fat? So where does that energy come from? It can’t be created from nothing.

so how does your theory fit?