To think if you've always lived in an affluent place you have no real idea about inequality in the UK?

[Pipsquiggle]

To give a bit of context, I grew up in one of the poorest boroughs in the country and now live in one of the richest.

Had a chat with a colleague today, saying I had randomly bumped into Wes Streeting yesterday and had a chat with him and wished him well. She said I could never vote for Labour, they are terrible with money.

I then said well at least they closed the inequality gap which had been completely undone and made worse by the Tories.
She asked what did I mean so I outlined the following:
Underfunding of councils in poor area which were already under the kosh
Underfunding of schools and SEN
Lack of transport infrastructure so if you don't have a car in many towns you are fucked, which in turn can lead to wage suppression
Closure of Sure start centres
Only being able to afford UP foods and the knock effects on the NHS and behaviour at schools............

I made a few more points and she admitted she just said she had no idea. I told her that if I had lived where I had live now all my life that I probably would be a Tory too but I can't ignore the poverty in my home town.

So AIBU to think that if you have only lived in an affluent area, you don't really understand how bad it is in the wider country?

I think the difference is the perception that a successful person from a poor background has got there through hard work, (and obviously they have worked their arse off and deserve every penny) but the kid they sat next to at school wasn’t successful because, although they had the same opportunities, they were automatically lazy. There could be no other reason. There’s no understanding that they may have had exactly the same chances but there are so, so many more issues at play.

I would have loved to have gone to university. And although the concept was completely alien to my family, I was encouraged to work hard. We could all read and write before we started school and had more books than food in the house. But I’d been working and helping to support my family for years and I knew they couldn’t manage without my contribution. So university was out. And I was the lucky one. None of the kids I grew up with went to uni either, and it wasn’t because they were lazy (most of them worked harder than I did and I had two jobs during term time and three in the holidays) but because they were told not to be so daft, or their parents taught them from an early age that uni was for posh kids, or their home life was so difficult that having a baby and escaping to their own flat was a better option and the thought of escaping to uni was akin to escaping to the moon.

Out of all the kids who clawed their way out of poor backgrounds through education, I wonder how many had parents like mine, compared to the parents some of my mates had.

Schools often won’t encourage uni, or even mention it as a possibility to this demographic of young people. All they’re focused on is scraping them through their maths and English GCSE, tick a box and send them on their way

As a person who spent 10 years teaching in a comp in one of the most deprived northern towns, I would just like to say that what you are claiming above is complete nonsense. Teachers in these kids of schools go over and above to open kids' eyes to the opportunities out there because these things can be so incredibly important and life changing. So university is very much on the table and kids are encouraged and gently pushed and guided to aim high.

University is encouraged
I was encouraged to go Cambridge
But I wasn't prepared for that kind of university

My opinions are still the same - no one that lives in the SE should even have the audacity to think anyone living in the other, many less priviliged parts of England and the wider UK are lesser because of it

You are aware that there is grave poverty in the SE too, right?

Not ridiculous at all, they have had talks on them but they weren’t won around because the subjects are too limited and industry specific, I suppose it depends on if you see a degree education as just a stepping stone to a career.

And I'm a very good example of the downward-direction that socio-economic levels can take; mostly through my choice and not lifestyle choices as I really found the English SE-way too unpalatable.

I made a conscious decision to live in a poor yet beautiful location as an early 30s single independent female - and felt more accepted than any UK place I'd lived in before. Still do, with a few forays back to the SE for study and education for my ds...lucky me.

The only difference now, besides me being early 60s with a ds in tow, is that during covid more smuggly SErs thought they'd give it a go - postponing my rural downsizing/mortgage free by 67 plans at the very least.

Until they realize it ain't quite the same economically if they thought they'd earn some money or that year-round it ain't so pretty and well the locals can be so 'ghastly' and the theatres are somewhat limited don't you know. And the cowshit on the roads and slurry-spreading can get a bit much.....

It does appear such as the above are beginning to return to their comfort zones - which bodes well.

@Goldenbear There is no such thing as a contextual offer from Oxford? If independent school offers have declined to 32%. Of course that means state numbers have gone up! 68% is double what they used to be! Well nearly!

Not ridiculous at all, they have had talks on them but they weren’t won around because the subjects are too limited and industry specific, I suppose it depends on if you see a degree education as just a stepping stone to a career

Well that is not what you said originally is it? You said that the students were too 'liberal' in their outlook to consider such a corporate move - the horror! And obviously degree apps are career focused - that is the entire point of them.
As a country we need far more decent degree apps and far fewer gender studies degrees.

The most that my DS’s school pushed him was to encourage him to apply for a Customer Service apprenticeship at the end of year 11. This was despite him getting all A*-B grades in 12 GCSEs. I had an argument with his careers officer who tried to tell me that it was a valuable qualification. I suppose it is if you want to end up working in a call centre. The only two options were a low-level apprenticeship or the local sixth form college.

DS found his own apprenticeship and is now an accountant.

Some people do seem unaware. I've posted links to some stats but perhaps they missed those posts.

Jaywick in Essex is one of the most deprived areas in the UK.

And then there's London:
Highest homeless rates in the UK.
Highest child poverty rate in the UK
Highest pensioner poverty rate in the UK

There's a fair number of other very deprived parts of the SE, including within areas that are generally affluent. Like the part of Surrey in the article below

Life in Surrey area with highest child poverty

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cv22y8np787o

Well that's not good enough and I am frankly amazed that with those grades he was not encouraged to go on to the sixth form. Glad that he got a good apprenticeship though.
Too often comps have appalling careers depts and this must change. Sixth form colleges usually have very good careers depts.

Given that the government of the UK spends just under £18k annually per capita across all government spends, for every single person - new born baby to pensioner- every year, and that 2/3rds of the population do not make a net tax contribution out of their earnings, would you blame the people who are paying the majority of the tax for saying, bugger this for a game of soldiers : I shall go and live somewhere else. There are alternatives, fewer than there once were, true. But if you have money, there are choices. If you are intellectually gifted, then the world is your oyster. And after that, the options get threadbare.

There is absolutely no point in arguing with the bleeding hearts, they don’t understand and will never understand which is the whole point of the thread, unless you have lived amongst these people (and your family still are them) then they will never understand.

My brother and I had the exact same upbringing, same parents. He is a work shy loser with multiple children to multiple women, none of whom he pays for but everything is everyone else’s fault of course, I am successful because someone unknown came and knocked on my door and offered me my degree, my job, my house and he is sitting on his arse waiting on this imaginary person coming and giving him the same things, without having to lift a finger of course and the fact that it hasn’t happened is the fault of the government.

I have members of my family who are the same. Live off the state and always have, drink, smoke, multiple children and think that the world owes them a living.
These are the same types of people who bullied me throughout my time at school - swot, teacher's pet etc. - because I worked hard.

The problem is that the individual cases can hide the structural issues

Yes sone people from the same background can end up with very different outcomes

But if you look at 100 people from a poor background and 100 from a well off one then you will find far more successes in the well off group - everything can be just that little bit easier so you can be a bit more lazy / less clever and still succeed

Legal Aid was cut in 2012 under the Tories., primarily driven by Kenneth Clarke. LASPO 2012. NOT under Labour, please get your facts right.

Sorry you had a bad time under the Tories. Most people who need to use public services don't thrive under Tories.

SE deprivation:

Jaywick
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-poorest-town-locals-plagued-32098835

Princess tory may have carried it on but changes happened under Blair.

SE deprivation:

Kent Medway
Medway is said to have some of the most deprived wards in the UK
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cevvq1gne7eo

I absolutely did. The saddest part was that this particular teacher seemed shocked that I did. I honestly felt that they had zero aspirations for these kids. DS was lucky that he had a good group of friends, and they’ve all done well. So many others from his year are stuck in minimum wage jobs or dealing drugs. They’re more ‘the norm’ than my son and his friends. The difference was that they lived on the estates, whereas DS and his mates had more privileged lifestyles and more supportive parents. It’s really not as simple as ‘being lazy’. I’m sure some of those other boys in their minimum wage jobs work much harder than my DS.

I live in a very nice place. The people are nice and clean. The shops are lovely. Parks, outstanding schools, paths for cycling and dog walking, as most have lovely healthy dogs. Nice cars, well maintained houses and gardens. Great place to raise your kids.

We have just moved office at work. It’s in the centre of town, only 15 minutes away by car from my lovely home. But my god, it’s an entirely different planet. I can’t even put into words how awful it is. The things I see, smell and hear as I scurry from the parking to the building or when I open my office windows. Due to the nature of my job, we need to be located in this type of area, but, hand on heart, I really had no idea people live in these conditions.

I’m not a young naive sheltered girl. I lived in a big city at uni and in my 20s, but it was mostly ‘crazy’ things and people I saw. Now I witness poverty, addiction and mental illness and I’ve taken my off my rose tinted glasses. I know I’m lucky and privileged but it’s heartbreaking. Some days I’m quitting and staying in my bubble. Other days I’m going to write to the MPs and mobilise police and support workers to help these people.

This with bells on. Broken glass, vandalism, rubbish thrown around. Some people have grown up in poverty but with terrible examples of how to behave as a decent person on top of that.

But so much of it is self made. What people need is support to break the cycle and move out of the destruction, not money thrown at them to enable it to continue.

We need to make life hard for those not willing to climb and put a lot into education, improving job prospects, encouraging healthy lifestyles, good parenting, stable familes not lots of kids from different relationships etc.

I've never been to Jaywick, but look at Plymouth's ward-level statistics for an SW balance. North Prospect regularly features in the worst categories.

SE deprivation:

London
Shelter’s research also looks at places across England where homelessness is most acute:
London comes out worst, with 1 in 51 people homeless in the capital.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/at_least_309000_people_homeless_in_england_today