Labour and tax

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Is anyone else concerned about all the talk about Labour getting in and then increasing lots of taxes - capital gains, CT, tax on pensions etc. I'm accepting that they are going to get in, but i am genuinely concerned that they are going to clobber the middle classes.

I don't think that KS is a bad person (actually - with a few exceptions - i think that most politicians at least START in politics with the correct intentions), but i 'm worried that his genuine ideals are far more left then he is making out. The rich will be all right (they always are), but the middle classes (of which i am one) - i'm genuinely worried. He supported JC for God's sake!!

I think that people are genuinely so pissed off (rightfully) with the Tories, that they are voting in Labour with the idea that they can't be any worse. But i'm concerned that they might be (for different reasons).

Can any party really fix the issues in this country?

Please talk me down, someone!

I am so tired of the Conservative Party and their campaigners posting on here to keep perpetuating the tax lies against Labour.

I'm not saying I'm Labour, I've promised my vote elsewhere locally (and not to the Tories!).

But they must honestly think us 'mothers' are really stupid.

This.

Crap public services end up costing us more in the long run. Can't get a dentist, have to pay to go private. Hit a massive pot hole in your car, £500 to get it fixed. Bus not turned up, have to get a taxi to work.

We have quite a low tax burden compared to most of Europe, hike it up a bit please.

It appears that a new edict has gone out, no longer knowing what a woman is, but more Labour will tax you more.
Which is a particularly odd argument for the government to make given they have raised taxes consistently to their highest level in most people's lifetimes.

I agree. Always in AIBU too, phrased as "AIBU to think Labour will create an apocalyptic wasteland" to get the traffic.

Maybe they'll try a new approach as the CCHQ Campaigning Director took a leave of absence yesterday. His wife is being investigated by the gambling commission for bets placed on the election date.

Rishi Sunak pledged to lead a government with “integrity, professionalism and accountability at every level”

I don't think he succeeded.

Never mind the integrity and wotnot.
Has Rish! actually lead anything? Or did he fall down at that hurdle also?

Parts of this show a disturbing lack of understanding or, more likely, deliberate deceception Tax avoidance isn't something to be tackled, as it's perfectly legal. Pensions, ISAs, Cycle to work schemes are all perfectly legitimite tax avoidance techniques,

Completely agreed on the PE front and treatment of bonusses. But... if I have taken a risk with my money and invested in a start up, which is then succesful, creates jobs, grow, generates PAYE, NI, VAT and corporation tax for HMRC and supports other local businesses by consuming products and servcices, while inreasing in value (which benefits me) then surely that's a good thing, and should be incentivsed by the tax system. Otherwise, given the risk in investing in businesses and equities in general, I might just put the money in the bank or buy property and get a relatively stable return. Or invest overseas...

Legal avoidance can be made illegal if deemed unfair

Often loopholes don't emerge until after a law is passed

Parts of this show a disturbing lack of understanding or, more likely, deliberate deceception Tax avoidance isn't something to be tackled, as it's perfectly legal. Pensions, ISAs, Cycle to work schemes are all perfectly legitimite tax avoidance techniques

Yes. I assume that it's deliberate rather than accidental, given that the manifesto must go through numerous checks and internal advice/consultation. Given the number of tax rises that have been ruled out, it looks fairly likely that they are intentionally leaving the door open to restrictions on ISAs and pensions. To be fair they have been quite clear in the past that they wanted
to reintroduce the LTA but have apparently not been able to work out a practical way that wouldn't return us to doctors (etc) cutting hours and retiring early.

There's tax avoidance and tax avoidance.

The cycle scheme is one example.

Jimmy Carr only paying 1% tax on £3.3m is another. (In the interests of fairness, he subsequently paid more tax volunatrily after it came out - but the initial scheme was legal avoidance).

I don't think reviewing all avoidance mechanisms and making a conscious decision which ones are in the spirit of the thing and closing the opportunities for the rest is too ccrazy an idea, tbh.

I think you’re right to be concerned. The comment about not increasing tax for working people evades exactly what they are thinking of doing. By not saying, to me implies that the electorate won’t like it.

Speaking on LBC, Keir Starmer laid out his definition of a working person he would shield from tax rises: ‘people who earn their living,’ he said, who ‘rely on our [public] services and don’t really have the ability to write a cheque when they get into trouble.’

So my DC, a newly qualified teacher with savings towards a house deposit isn’t a working person as she has the ability to “write a cheque” if needed. That worries me.

Hopefully it means raising taxes for the wealthiest who earn millions each year doing very little but earn from their numerous assets.

I'm absolutely sure this will be the case. There is simply not enough declared money in manifesto to make a slightest dent.
So my bet is on

• Lifetime ISA limit
• Reduction of pension allowance from £60k to £40k at best if not £40k - Starmer explicitly said this last year
• Reduction of pension tax relief from your marginal rate to something flat, eg. 20%
• Reduction of tax free lump sum
• Pensions will form part of estate for IHT
• CGT increase is given

That doesn’t have any relevance to what I was saying. You are talking about taxing the very wealthy. I’m talking about Labour implying a person who works, has savings and doesn’t rely on the state, isn’t a working person.

They said there would be no tax increases for working people and most people would automatically think that means them when it clearly doesn’t.

It’s the vagueness that is worrying.

That's because KS is far more left than he's leading everyone to believe. He's as socialist as corbyn and backed him all the way. He makes so many u turns its impossible to know which way he's facing. He is the most dangerous politician in a long time. He is looking to put decision making into the hands of left wing judges! How is that democratic? We will be stuck with socialism even after Labour leave power, if they ever do after starmers rigged it.

It's deluded to think that. The wealthiest won't be affected. It has been reported that his planned tax on non doms won't generate any revenue as the non doms will just leave the country. This will lead to us being worse off a a nation as it will mean less investment in businesses among other things. So the billions KS plans to gain from this and fund his manifesto won't materialise so how will he pay for it???

And me. And futher, how will he qualify whether someone can or can't write a cheque. Will he go raiding bank accounts?!

I earn an above average wage but my mortgage and my DC nursery fees wipe out my income before the month has even begun. I cannot afford KS tax raids yet I suspect I'll be the one who's told to stump up the costs... I am very concerned about him getting into power.

I'd pay more tax but not to go to the NHS to deal with lifestyle issues, alcohol, drugs, hoarding etc etc. Before getting more money the NHS should be subject to a wide reaching audit of where the money goes, how much goes on inflated salaries for non-medical staff, simply box ticking to look good on paper.

Well that's good news, I was concerned he had shifted too far to the right to occupy ground where previously one could find Kenneth Clarke and similar Tories.

Thanks for the reassurance.

Yes I think that is all very likely, with the possibility they may back out of lowering the annual allowance for pensions. It would return the problems with doctors’ pensions and it becomes much less attractive to put money in a pension if the other changes are made anyway.

Presumably many people on high PAYE will just cut working hours instead. They already are but this would simply accelerate that as the alternative of large pension contributions would no longer be possible/attractive.

If we want an NHS that works, a police force that can solve crimes, state schools that have enough resoucers, an army with enough defense, options for people with disabilities, etc, etc, etc, then the money has to come from somewhere!!!
if taxes need to be raised for us to live in a happy stable country, then surely that is worthed?

This video about the actual tax burden and how it's being spent shocked me. Huge amounts of money. This is a TikTok link - not sure if you need the app to view but well worth a watch

vm.tiktok.com/ZGegyfVxL/

Reds under the beds aaaahhh. It feels like I’ve been miraculously transported to McCarthy America.
The absolute irony of Tory supporters when their own party lied to the queen and prorogued parliament as well as blatantly misinformed about Brexit and siphoned off billions of pounds to their cronies.

But, But Jeremy Corbyn made them do it, and then he ran off and left his puppet in charge instead.

Worry more about the tories. Their financial plans to bribe the electorate have been condemned by numerous economic experts. Huge financial black hole. Massive austerity plans. If you’re intending to use state education for your nursery age child I’d worry if the tories get in.