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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Labour and tax

304 replies

Iwishicouldflyhigh · 19/06/2024 11:12

Is anyone else concerned about all the talk about Labour getting in and then increasing lots of taxes - capital gains, CT, tax on pensions etc. I'm accepting that they are going to get in, but i am genuinely concerned that they are going to clobber the middle classes.

I don't think that KS is a bad person (actually - with a few exceptions - i think that most politicians at least START in politics with the correct intentions), but i 'm worried that his genuine ideals are far more left then he is making out. The rich will be all right (they always are), but the middle classes (of which i am one) - i'm genuinely worried. He supported JC for God's sake!!

I think that people are genuinely so pissed off (rightfully) with the Tories, that they are voting in Labour with the idea that they can't be any worse. But i'm concerned that they might be (for different reasons).

Can any party really fix the issues in this country?

Please talk me down, someone!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Chickenuggetsticks · 20/06/2024 06:22

Houseofdragonsisback · 19/06/2024 23:27

Well we could have Scandi rates at the top end?

Scandi rates only work with scandi public services though. And to get such services everyone needs to pay more taxes like they do in scandi countries. You need a broad tax base to raise significant revenue.

Yeah this keeps being missed, lower earners in scandi countries pay a lot more tax than they do in the UK. VAT is also higher. (Think it’s 25%).

I’m not sure that’s what people actually want, plus some don’t have inheritance tax.

EasternStandard · 20/06/2024 06:26

Aladdinzane · 19/06/2024 21:39

As predicted, any suggestion of paying more tax is met by utter derision and threats from the hysterical daily mail reading classes.

The country is a shell of what it once was, because of 14 years of ideological austerity. We have lower corporation tax, lower CGT, lower IHT, no wealth taxes and lower top rates of progressive tax than many other countries.

We have lower pensions, levels of basic benefits, spend less on health, education and infrastructure. We have the highest wealth inequality of any major European nation and the lowest level of social mobility. We did have a larger level of children living in poverty, till the Tories changed the definition of it. We have the highest level of things like foodbank use in Western Europe at least and other countries in central and Eastern Europe are predicted to go beyond our living standards in the next decade.

We have a generation which is shorter than previous generations, average height amongst 5 year olds falling every year from 2013, the most expensive university education in Europe, we have life expectancy lowering. The list is fucking endless.

Something has to change, and we should be ashamed as a nation that those who have benefitted the most from this society view their achievements as separate and we should be mortified that they make threats about what they we do if we do ask them to contribute more.

You expected adoration and for people to genuflect to your munificence for being "net contributors" , yet this is a very basic calculation, and when run over a lifetime, only about 3% of people die in net benefit. Change a few things in the calculation ( like adding in indirect societal benefits) and its about 0.5%, and the number of net contributors falls dramatically. Most, including you, will die in net tax deficit. You are not the masters of the universe, and will not be treated as such.

I see the usual threats are out there about leaving.

You won't. You are less globally mobile than you think. You can make up whatever story you want to try to justify it on here, but you know deep down you aren't really moving.

Reduce your hours. Great, someone else is going to benefit from them. If you think no one else can do your job, you are almost 99% wrong. There may be one or two of you, but far too many of you who threaten spend far too long on MN every day ( and night) to be quite as important and indispensable as you claim.

If your kids are an in private school and you can't afford the fee increase? You most likely made a bad financial decision there anyway and you were over stretched. Sorry. Most parents will just swallow the increase by making minor changes to spending.

Your parents are going to have to pay for their own social care with the wealth they amassed, this is only right and fair, YOU did not earn the inheritance that you thought you were getting, and they benefitted from untaxed property gains for generations.

IHT will go up, and it is fair, you didn't earn it, and your parents got tax breaks on it. They aren't being taxed, they are dead.

Council taxes need to change, people in newer build houses ( and there are a lot since 1992) are paying higher rates than people in much more valuable houses. Most people will again just be paying a bit more.

The changes will effect EVERYONE, but the future has got to get better. We can't run the country for the benefit of the rich, privileged and highly paid any longer.

Out of all this, which I’m not sure will be the case, people do opt in or out / move etc

We have lower corporation tax

This isn’t true I don’t think, compared with countries who decide to really compete for companies based on
CT

fliptopbin · 20/06/2024 06:41

Rubblefrompawpatrol · 19/06/2024 20:35

I think CGT on housing is a poor plan. Much better to scrap stamp Duty and council tax and charge a % of a house’s value as an annual local tax instead. This incentivises people to move house by taking away the barrier (stamp duty) and encouraging people to live in a house that isn’t too big by making it expensive to do so.

It would get more money out of the rich and reduce demand (and prices) for larger family homes.

Labour have specifically said that there will be no CTG on family homes.

Thingscanonlygetsunk · 20/06/2024 06:51

fliptopbin · 20/06/2024 06:41

Labour have specifically said that there will be no CTG on family homes.

That shows beyond any reasonable doubt that they will put CTG on family second homes and so we should have at least one thread a day about it and how unfair it is.

tara66 · 20/06/2024 07:14

Thingscanonlygetsunk · 20/06/2024 06:51

That shows beyond any reasonable doubt that they will put CTG on family second homes and so we should have at least one thread a day about it and how unfair it is.

There is CGT on second homes now.

LumiB · 20/06/2024 07:21

It might not be in the manifesto but saying things like Wales is the blueprint for rest of the country and Wes saying they will be looking to re evaluate council tax bands is enough to tell you what is going to happen from the horse mouth.

Then you have Khan who campaigned on no more war on motorists but focusing on tackling crime coming out and saying he wants to increase police capacity cos his focus is on achieving 1m fines for speeding.

Just look around and what they say and do that isnwhat is coming and if Wales is the blue print....

Isitsixoclockalready · 20/06/2024 07:22

What happened to the OP? They seem very concerned about tax but only posted once.

hattie43 · 20/06/2024 07:24

Yes , I don't trust them at all on tax

Pottedpalm · 20/06/2024 07:32

BuddhaAtSea · 19/06/2024 16:42

I’ll be happy to pay more tax if that means children won’t go hungry, you can have your hip done in a timely manner, you can see a dentist again, plough as much as you like in education, because that’s the future, if your child can go and do nursing without paying tuition fees, if the local leisure centre can afford to give out heavily subsidised swimming and sport activities, if you’ll feel less lonely because there is a community centre open where you can go and have a cup of coffee and a chat, if the social care is back where is should be…yup, happy to be taxed.

I agree. Happy for my DCs to be taxed if they have access to high quality childcare, excellent healthcare and great services.

Noddedoffagain · 20/06/2024 07:42

tara66 · 20/06/2024 07:14

There is CGT on second homes now.

Isn’t it a very low rate though?

Thingscanonlygetsunk · 20/06/2024 07:55

hattie43 · 20/06/2024 07:24

Yes , I don't trust them at all on tax

Fortunately by contrast we can entirely trust the Tories to put up taxes on those who can least afford it.

LadyFeatheringt0n · 20/06/2024 07:58

I am a very high earner (the 1%) and am assuming i'll be a target to pay more and am happy to. I would rather pay more and see the country improve public services and invest to grow.

LadyFeatheringt0n · 20/06/2024 07:59

Fortunately by contrast we can entirely trust the Tories to put up taxes on those who can least afford it.

This or more importantly, cut support to the most vulnerable.

Thingscanonlygetsunk · 20/06/2024 08:03

LadyFeatheringt0n · 20/06/2024 07:59

Fortunately by contrast we can entirely trust the Tories to put up taxes on those who can least afford it.

This or more importantly, cut support to the most vulnerable.

To be fair, the reason that they are vulnerable is that they can't look after themselves, and since they don't contribute to GDP and growth, why should they expect that our taxes would look after them?

Also But Jeremy Corbyn, Keir's Beer, Angela's House and VAT on School fees.

greencartbluecart · 20/06/2024 08:08

Since they don't contribute to GDP why should we look after them ?

Because we are still HUMAN

Humanity is about people not GDP
Civilisation is about humanity at its best not animals in the jungle

People first and foremost with GDP as a tool to help us do that in a fair way

Without civilisation you have no farmers growing food for you to buy, no roads to the market for you to travel , no trained medics to fix you

Hang have I just fallen for sarcasm ?

Thingscanonlygetsunk · 20/06/2024 08:10

greencartbluecart · 20/06/2024 08:08

Since they don't contribute to GDP why should we look after them ?

Because we are still HUMAN

Humanity is about people not GDP
Civilisation is about humanity at its best not animals in the jungle

People first and foremost with GDP as a tool to help us do that in a fair way

Without civilisation you have no farmers growing food for you to buy, no roads to the market for you to travel , no trained medics to fix you

Hang have I just fallen for sarcasm ?

Sarcasm, or I was channelling my inner Tory/Reform voter.

Aladdinzane · 20/06/2024 08:13

Isitsixoclockalready · 20/06/2024 07:22

What happened to the OP? They seem very concerned about tax but only posted once.

The bot factory closed for the evening.

Everysand · 20/06/2024 08:23

The very well off that virtue signal that they will pay more tax to help others will still be very well off anyway so easy for them to do

Aladdinzane · 20/06/2024 08:37

Everysand · 20/06/2024 08:23

The very well off that virtue signal that they will pay more tax to help others will still be very well off anyway so easy for them to do

Nah, the well of tell us that they pay too much anyway, and that they should be treated nicely because they will leave if we ask them to contribute more.

Shortfatsuit · 20/06/2024 09:16

Olderkids · 19/06/2024 21:32

Such an eloquent and reasoned reply 🙄

Sometimes, one word sums it up perfectly.

Thingscanonlygetsunk · 20/06/2024 10:13

So much less than the equivalent earned income through PAYE.

loudbatperson · 20/06/2024 10:29

Public services are on their needs, borrowing is sky high. The whole thing is a massive mess at the moment. There will have to be investment to sort it out. Some will come from growth, some from recouping lost funds and some will likely have to come from taxation.

What is the alternative though? Does anyone really think things can carry on as they are now?

TheDarkMonarch · 20/06/2024 10:31

Nope, the tax talk does not scare me - because I think it is propogander spread about to make people fearful of voting Labour.

ALL the parties have fiscal black holes in their manisfestos and Labour's seems to be among the smallest of them.

They have explicitly ruled out income tax rises, VAT rises, NI rises, CTG on first homes and council tax bandings/raises. I'm not sure what else that can do and personally think they have gone much further than any of the other. I haven't seen/heard a similar level of statements from the other parties.

In fact, the more I hear "Labour and tax" now, the more I roll my eyes at the other parties because I assume they are whipping up the fear to put people off voting for Labour.

Noddedoffagain · 20/06/2024 10:39

Yes. So fairly low with only two thresholds. Also money from rent can easily be hidden in companies within companies and money paid out in dividends which, again is taxed at that low rate. I read on here that Rishi paid 25% tax in the millions he made last financial year.

If you make more in one year than an average person makes in 20 then you can afford to pay more than 25% in tax to maintain a civilised and ordered society. Greater inequality = higher crime rates and poorer mental health for everyone (including the wealthiest). More equal societies are happier.

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