Labour and tax

[Iwishicouldflyhigh]

Is anyone else concerned about all the talk about Labour getting in and then increasing lots of taxes - capital gains, CT, tax on pensions etc. I'm accepting that they are going to get in, but i am genuinely concerned that they are going to clobber the middle classes.

I don't think that KS is a bad person (actually - with a few exceptions - i think that most politicians at least START in politics with the correct intentions), but i 'm worried that his genuine ideals are far more left then he is making out. The rich will be all right (they always are), but the middle classes (of which i am one) - i'm genuinely worried. He supported JC for God's sake!!

I think that people are genuinely so pissed off (rightfully) with the Tories, that they are voting in Labour with the idea that they can't be any worse. But i'm concerned that they might be (for different reasons).

Can any party really fix the issues in this country?

Please talk me down, someone!

So which low tax haven are you moving to?

I’ll be happy to pay more tax if that means children won’t go hungry, you can have your hip done in a timely manner, you can see a dentist again, plough as much as you like in education, because that’s the future, if your child can go and do nursing without paying tuition fees, if the local leisure centre can afford to give out heavily subsidised swimming and sport activities, if you’ll feel less lonely because there is a community centre open where you can go and have a cup of coffee and a chat, if the social care is back where is should be…yup, happy to be taxed.

So basically you've been royally screwed under the Tories (like the rest of us) but you're probably still going to vote for them. Oh dear.

Whoever gets in, we will be taxed more. The country is in shit order.🤷‍♀️

Who said I’m going to vote conservatives? I don’t like them either.

We’re taxed more than we’ve ever been taxed before. All projections show the amount of taxation rising, whoever is elected next month.

Tories slightly higher than Labour tax wise. Depends which taxes bother you - council tax and fuel duty affect me more than potential changes in capital gains, as we’re not selling any assets in the next few years. Couldn’t give a shit about sad stories from private school parents worried about the potential impact of being charged VAT.

This elusive “growth” won’t be the answer. It will come down to taxation. Whoever is in power. Just depends if you find the added contempt in which the Tories hold the NHS an added insult to your taxation.

They have clearly and absolutely said they are not raising income tax, NI and VAT. They won’t be able to do this without a major about turn.

They will presumably raise CGT and look at a wealth tax. Wealth tax for the top 1%, at a guess. CGT will affect hardly any of the middle class people I know (those with second homes who may want to sell them anytime soon, but in reality I suspect it will just stop those homes being sold other than where inherited). Sounds like they may further tax pensions - guessing by reducing the size of the tax free lump sum. Private schools, non-doms etc we all know about.

Not sure what all the panic is about unless you have kids at private school or are about to retire with a decent pension pot. We should be more worried that they have backed themselves into a corner and have no money to fix the absolute shit show they are being left.

How do you mean "Nice try"? I returned from Denmark on Tuesday 11th June, having celebrated my birthday there. There's no doubt - surely - that if we want better services, we need to pay for them?

Or have you fallen for the Tory notion that you can have them without paying more?

Problem solved. Thanks T. I’ll get on my internet banking straight away as I’m sure everyone else reading your informative link will do.

Whichever party gets in they will all be raising taxes because none of them have pledged to raise the tax thresholds.

I did hear something that Labour planned to reduced the rate at which small business need to register for VAT to £50k which will have a significant impact on prices. How true that is I don't know though.

For the ones staying here. Farage would be circling and not letting KS get away with too much. He is hoping to be PM for the next elections and is certain is going to go like Biden in the US.

Labour will be even worse than the Tories have been, the bar is that low.

Prepare for increased taxes, more freebies and handouts, even fewer net contributors in the economy and those left to pay more through the nose.

This cycle started with nu Labour and is now deeply entrenched into the fabric of his country, accelerating UK’s terminal decline.

To do things better requires very drastic and unpopular measures which are not in line with Labour's image.

I have zero doubts about massive tax increases for everyone slightly above average - there will be reduction of pension tax relief (Starmer said this last year when it was increased from 40k to 60k) both in terms of amount and rate, it will be reduced from your marginal rate to some flat one much lower. There will be both IHT and CGT increases for sure, this will hit London and SE especially badly. I fully anticipate lifetime cap on ISA. Council tax bands and rates review is on the table as well.

Let's be honest - non doms don't sit in keen anticipation of loopholes closure to hand £5.3bn over, they are leaving the country in droves already so this amount is unlikely to materialise. £1.5bn from private schools VAT will be substantially smaller as well and in a few years will likely to become negative given moves to state or homeschooling (there are plenty of threads here).

Who's going to pay for Great British Energy? for nationalisation? where 6500 teachers, tax experts etc will come from given labour shortages?

I also expect all these rises to be introduce in the first of second budget latest - they need a lot of money immediately to be able to demonstrate at least some improvements by next election and these rises have to be a relatively distant memory, not the bleeding hurt immediately before that election.

Tax rises for middle classes who have a few £ saved but not rich / mobile enough to emigrate will be enormous, they will pay for everything incl NHS rainbow nonsense.

Pay up them. That is up to the people living in the U.K. after July 4th.

Ahhhh Triestre - rude on every thread.

Another Tory shill 🥱

I work in tax. I love taxes. The more the better. 👏

Very true but - their top rates for high earners aren't dissimilar to ours, but their lower rates are significantly higher.

Denmark - Individual - Taxes on personal income (pwc.com)

There is also very different welfare system which is very supportive of those in work (childcare etc) but limits the time when one is entitled to unemployment support and the amount depends on your previous earnings as well.

This reminds me of a conversation with a colleague on £30k who was saying "I'd be really happy to pay extra taxes, like tenner a month to get substantially better services". Well, those net contributors already pay through the roof but don't see any benefits in return.

Need Some Tissues For Your Issues?

That's pretty funny 🤣 but no, I'm good ta. It can't be doing you any good to have a chip on your shoulder all the time. I've got some sauce for it if you want.

You would think given how long the tories have had in power compared to labour that they should have been able to Undo any damage caused by those guys more than a decade ago ?

Seems pretty poor performance really ?

And do we have much evidence that we historically were worse off overall under labour ?

Hum a quick google suggests not

Yet somehow people believe it would be better for us under the tories - despite all evidence to the contrary

Here is my challenge - I do share the hate for Tories. But this doesn't mean love for Labour - there is not a single workable policy in their manifesto which will deliver meaningful change.

Let's take 40,000 extra NHS appointments a week - where from? where all these medical professionals will come from? from abroad?

6500 new teachers? 0.3 per school? where from? just read a parallel thread about teachers leaving profession. Teachers from closing private schools will not move to state, they will find other jobs or do tutoring.

HMRC tax avoidance army - where from? it requires very considerable skills and experience. Those ones who are capable enough to do it will move to private sector to protect those ones they are supposed to catch, they will pay many times more.

All I see it "Labour will do it better" is based on emotion, not analysis.

@Summerflames 🤣

I'm getting a little bored with posters on MN who are complaining how much worse the "middle classes" have been treated in recent years. For starters can we start using the phrase "middle earners" instead, because that's what you are all talking about - income rather than class.

Allowances such as personal tax allowance not going up has had a much bigger impact on lower earners than on higher earners. Taxes on investments may hit middle earners, but lower earners can only dream of having assets that are taxable. CGT on secondary properties - bully for you having one at all, when many can't afford to rent.

Price rises on essential items hit lower income people much harder than they do middle earners. Middle earners can cut back a bit, lower earners have already cut back everything to the bone.

I used to be a Tory voter, but over the last few years they have gone so far to the right, and have lost any compassion or consideration for those less well off, that even if they promised the world I wouldn't believe them.

Of course they could if they wanted to, do the morally right thing, that's also good economics. But will they.

Will they drop the false economy approach that's caused so many of society's problems, increased poverty, and added to the burden on the economy?

One of the biggest ways they could cut costs would be a massive council home build.

Housing, health, and poverty. All three are interlinked. Benefits bill is so high because there's not enough social housing. It also costs the NHS because insecure and substandard housing affects health, as does poverty.

As well as more social housing, add in good well-funded public services, supportive benefits system, improved child support system, and job and training opportunities. That way people get effective and timely help, so then have reduced need for state help and need it for shorter periods of time.

With tax. The concern I assume is if it's what so often happens (whoever's in government). Will it most harm the "just about managing" groups. People just above benefit thresholds. People who can't afford tax avoidance and reduction schemes that the rich have access to.

Another big concern is if they do anything with council tax. If they do, they'll absolutely need to do it in a way that doesn't harm the many people on low incomes in London and the SE.

One of the main reasons why the London poverty rate is one of the highest in the UK is because housing there has been allowed to become too expensive.

Perhaps especially relevant is that pensioners (and the disabled) are on fixed incomes, so any council tax rise will particularly harm poorer and vulnerable people in the SE (although it will also harm lower income working age people in those areas).

Bearing in mind too that the full council tax discount for people on the lowest incomes is up to individual council discretion.

Also worth noting, wrt council tax, Age UK stats
The capital has the UK’s highest rate of poverty for people of pensionable age. Older Londoners are as diverse as any other age group and face significant socio-economic inequalities impacting all aspects of people’s lives.

24% of Londoners of pensionable age live in poverty (a quarter of a million people). This is a 5% increase since 2017 and 7% more than the rest of England average.

It's not as if everyone from London or the SE can simply move elsewhere. Aside from family or job commitments, it would impact on the areas they move to. As we see on the many threads about the impact of regional 'blow-ins' adding pressure on housing, jobs, and public services.