To think droves of teachers will make the decision by husband made today- to leave

[Peakyshelby]

Well after 6 years of teaching my husband has broken down, gone to the doctors, been signed off and says he is done.

he has done 3 years in 2 schools and then done supply for 3 years. There is too much to list but the highlights have been

been told to go and fuck himself and other insults thrown at him by kids with hardly any consequences from parents and schools

having stuff chucked at him

having to appear as a witness in court when a parent beat up his own child at home time in the playground

having parents create a smear group on WhatsApp against him and 2 other newly qualified teachers because the parents said there little darlings behaviour must be down to inexperienced teachers not being able to handle them.

having parents laugh and him and tell him he is picking on their little darlings by trying to sanction them.

have children laughing at him and saying my mum and dad don’t care what I do

hardly any support from above.

There is too much more to write but today he had a 10 year old child walk up to him and pour a water bottle over his head.

he is done. He qualified with a group of 10 others and 8 of them have since quit. 2 did not get through there NQT year.

He says the system is broken

We had to do toothbrushing in NE Scotland for many years. Teachers refused to do it so a PSA would come in after break and lunchtime - so 2 x 15 minutes teaching time lost every day on something that's a parental responsibility.

My teaching salary was decent but I still quit due to stress and workload. Paying me more would not have made a difference.

@planAplanB how did we get here and how can it be fixed?

I'm so sad at th state of state education. I'm really sorry for all the stress teachers experience...and the good kids frankly. It's brutal.

It’s not about the money. It’s about quality of life. 60+ hours a week is too much. I want to work 40-50 hours and be able to spend time with my family and have hobbies.

Lots of teachers go ”part time” so they can work just 40 hours. It’s ridiculous. Considering that a full time teaching job is approx 25 hours in the classroom, and the other 35 hours are paperwork.

@Blimpton I hear you. It's not quite the same, but I'm a lecturer on a fractional post for that exact reason. I probably work around full time hours but they can't give me more teaching at least.

40-50 hours is still too much. I don't want exhausted stressed teachers in my son's school.

My experience has that there has been a significant change in attitude from parents in terms of helping to run any kind of event - be it school, after school or any other thing.

The local area has always had loads of these type of organisations. Now they can't recruit.

The parental attitude has been 'can't I just throw money at this, i don't have time. I have a really important job. Etc etc'. Instead they look around at everyone else, thinking its not their responsibility and then getting irrate when it all goes to shit. Its burning up so much good will.

Except the people who have been doing these things for years, have/had important full on jobs and often other commitments, but they prioritised doing these things because they were valued.

Now they are taken for granted, so everythings folding. Even in places with good senses of community. Because people can't be arsed.

I think that sense really comes through to me.

Its in and across everything.

No child who is not able to use the lavatory should be admitted to a reception or nursery class. It's a simple solution to having to potty train other people's children. Schools across the UK need to make it clear to parents that potty training is their responsibility - and the government also needs to support this (currently it is not - see below). When my DS went to playschool (a sadly depleted movement) he had to be out of nappies at three. This seemed and seems utterly reasonable. Is the problem that very small children are in nurseries and that the staff do not have time to potty train the children? If it is, then the entire encouragement of very young children in nurseries is totally cock-eyed and needs to end. That children turn up at nursery/reception in nappies is the surest evidence that only providing financial support to families where both parents go out to work is utterly stupid.
Do we have to wait for the first 16-year-old MP to turn up in the House of Commons to take their seat wearing nappies to realise this?

Clearly this has to be true given how many teachers left last year. Honestly, how can people still parrot this nonsense? There is a massive issue in teaching and parents trying to gaslight teachers is part of the problem. The job has become awful for so many now and something needs to be done for the sake of all our kids. My eldest is being taught by a constant stream of supply teachers as staff member after staff member leave- not because of the school or the leadership which are by all accounts supportive- but because of Ofsted, government education policy and kids who know there are no consequences for their awful behaviour and parents who enable in and abuse teachers. The Tories have spent years telling the public teachers aren't to be respected and parents and children have got the message loud and clear.
Only a total idiot would believe teachers are the problem here.

Also, teachers are not paid for the holidays. Their salary is spread equally across 12 months of the year, but only covers 1265 hours + directed time (DT) - that does not include holidays. In case someone says that 1265 + DT is much less than most people work, the average hours worked per year are 2000 (40hpw x 52 = 2,080); many teachers work more hours than that, essentially unpaid.

Lots of teachers go ”part time” so they can work just 40 hours. It’s ridiculous.

So true. Being paid a part time salary to work a 40 hour week is just unacceptable.

I dropped down to 4 days and the school kept asking me if I'd come in on supply on my day off. I know they were desperate but there was a very good reason why I stopped working full time.

The parental attitude has been 'can't I just throw money at this, i don't have time. I have a really important job. Etc etc'.
Thats because they’re cash rich and time poor. Because the cost of living is too high, houses are too expensive, so both parents have to work and nobody has any spare time any more. Employers aren’t helping because they insist that anyone with a “really important job” has to work full time 9-5.

But this is what teachers are having to resort to in order to work “normal hours” like everyone else.

Do you know what the full time equivalent pay would be for teachers then if they worked 40 hours per week ? So teachers are paid for an average of 24 hours a week? But obviously work more in term time and none/a few in the 13 weeks holidays?

But this is what teachers are having to resort to in order to work “normal hours” like everyone else.

Yes, I know. I was agreeing that it was terrible that this is what happens. I'm the only full timer in my department. I'd love to be part time. It would make my job manageable. But with one dc at university and another one off in two years, we need the money.

@RedToothBrush totally agree with this. The attitude is always some other mug will do it because people have become selfish, entitled and lazy. Which I guess isn't a massive problem when it's organising things like events as you mentioned but when it's things like potty training your toddler or helping your little one to read or disciplining your child, it becomes a big problem and becomes everybody else's problem rather than the parents.

Well, the school is not supportive of teachers if children know there are no consequences for bad behaviour. Some schools work well, e.g. Micheala, in a very poor and disadvantaged area of London. Lots of discipline, explicit teaching, high expectations and supportive parents.

They are not paid for the holidays. They are paid for 1265 hours and Directed Time. Teachers (and others) only think they are paid for the holidays. One look at the contract and you can see they are not.

Full time equivalent isn’t much use to teachers as they can’t contractually work those hours

I already told you. Go look for what I said.

Have you tagged the wrong poster @Grammarnut

I remember my Finnish friend telling me the DC there were taught to brush their teeth at school. There were plans to introduce chewing gum instead of brushing teeth and the parents were up in arms!

While I dare say you're right. I've not found PTAs really easy to join or help with anything.

When my DD first started Primary I was all ready to join the PTA but there was no information about how to do so. I enquired with the school who said they'd pass on my contact details. I enquired again now and then for a while then gave up. Some years later it appeared in the school newsletter that they were trying to get new members to join the PTA and gave the date and time of a meeting. I went along and so did several others. A couple of others said they'd wanted to join earlier etc. But essentially the old guard had everything covered and there wasn't anything for most of us to do. I gave up going to the meetings as they were awkward for me as a single mum but let the PTA know I was willing to volunteer if they needed people. Tried to volunteer when it was the Christmas discos or this and that but never taken up on the offer. Finally my DD was in Y6 and I finally managed to be accepted as a volunteer for the Summer fair. I had to make arrangements for DD to be with her friends family while I volunteered. I was to be at the welcome desk. So I arrived and went to my post but there were already people there. They vaguely suggested I find the person in charge. And I just thought sod this! I'll enjoy the day with my DD! There always seemed to be so much undertone of the PTA being overworked and lacking volunteers when actually they were just a closed group not welcoming to newcomers and completely unorganised to the extent even those falling over themselves to volunteer were not taken up on the offer!

My DD is at high school now. And it seems pretty much the same story!

If you had that rule you'd be excluding a lot of DC with SEN who are as entitled to education as any other child.

You couldn't pay me any amount of money to go back. £1m wouldn't be enough.