to think the ageism on here has been disgusting recently

[EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon]

Distaste for the idea of older mothers. Pesky pensioners daring to shop at weekends when they've 'got all week' to do it. Retirement-age people being lambasted for not resigning to free up jobs for younger people. A lack of comprehension as to why older people are even in the workplace at all. Calls for over-80s to be stripped of their driving licences. A solemn assertion from one pp earlier in the year that '60 isn't young. It's old.' like middle age doesn't even exist. And that’s just off the top of my head.

Some people are going to get a shock when they get older themselves, according to some of the comments I’ve seen on this forum recently.

@AmelieTaylor

Seems like a weird (and a bit rude!) assumption to make - re retirement. I know some people can retire in their 50s but most can’t!

I don’t know if the ageism on Mumsnet is getting worse - it’s definitely noticeable though - sometimes laughably so - not sure if some people are just out to provoke.

I am sorry @EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon but I am not aware of too many 140 year olds, 70 can't be middle aged. I think categorising 40 which could be new mum with 70 a possible great grandma is unfair to both.

70 today isn't what 70 was but it is still sadly in my late mothers case a full lifetime. Pretending it isn't won't make life easier. Nor will it reflect each particular age groups needs.

I have seen sadly in rural Ireland a lot of older drivers who should not be on the road being enabled by family. And yes I am aware of accidents were or was their reflex was a factor. This says more about our society not having alternatives in place so people don't become isolated.

YANBU, OP

As for the 'been abused by boomers' crap. Perhaps that poster might like to have a look at the plight of the 'hidden poor'. Older people who, thanks to the ridiculous generalisations of large groups in varied circumstances who have nothing in common but age.

From Age UK and Independent Age
The other noticeable trend is that inequalities within older generations are some of the most extreme in society.

Also, I'm not sure if this age group is 'boomer' or 'Gen X' (I tend to ignore unhelpful sweeping generalisations of large groups who have people in varied circumstances) but
People aged 60-64 now have the highest relative poverty rate at 25%.

Did I say 'young'?

No I didn't

Maybe we need a new term for between middle-aged and old

I do see ageism on here, agreed. But I also see something else; I am mid 40s so no spring chicken.

I think a lot of people my age and older are very patronizing and dismissive of young people. To the point of real rudeness. And literally, the actual politics of age and spending means those of pension age are doing much better than those who are younger and working.

I think this goes both ways. Young people have it all to do. They have less help built into society and less spending. They are encouraged to get into a debt in a way that those of my age and above were not. Age is increasingly privileged. Our government focuses on the needs of the old and relatively rich.

Add in a good amount of patronizing claptrap about housing and a few anecdotes about privations suffered decades ago and I am not surprised at resentment and ageism as a result. Or oppose housing developments because it doesn’t suit an older view of what housing should be, ie a parking space or being in keeping with the area.

And then lock them up for a fair while during COVID and criminalise their social behaviour.

Younger people need to have lives which are not constantly referred to the needs of the old. Ageism is what you get when the balance between the help and investment a part of society receives is tilted in the favour of one.Currently that’s the older generations.

More info from Age UK and Independent Age

We know that the poverty rate for single pensioners is double that of couples. Pension age women tend to have higher poverty rates

And pensioners who enter poverty didn’t have high incomes in their working lives and those groups who are at greater risk of poverty in later life also have greater risk of entering poverty past State Pension Age.

More than 4.6 million people 50 and older still having to pay off mortgages.

The highest number of older people in rented accommodation ever (almost 2 million aged 50 and older).

More than one in three (37%) pensioners who rent homes privately are in poverty.

Good point. There is ageism on this thread even in people arguing about what is old. It's because we have all internalized ageism to some extent. We should combat this by not being afraid to call people old when they are indeed old.

And please can we avoid my number one pet peeve: "She is 90 years young." No she is not. She is ninety. She is old.

Growing old is a great privilege, which sadly is denied to many.

The number of old people driving who can’t even pass the minimum eyesight distance is shocking. As a road death investigator I dealt with many serious or fatal collisions where the elderly driver shouldn’t have been driving. I couldn’t agree with you more.

Every MIL thread where they are described as an ‘old bitch’ or ‘old bag’ I report. That’s a double whammy of ageism and misogyny! There is just no need or justification for it.

@bombastix I agree that generalisation of any age group is wrong and unhelpful (as is the pitting of different age groups against each other).

Returning to the poster who talked nonsense about 'abuse by boomers'.

The following info is about the situation for the poorest older people. It's about London in particular (London has the highest pensioner poverty rate), but it's relevant for pensioner, and those close to pension age, poverty in general

Unable to access basic necessities such as a damp-free home, access to a telephone or having hair cut regularly

More than one in three fuel poor households in London include at least one person of the age of 60.

The proportion of Londoners in poverty before housing costs is higher among the 80-84 age group than in any other age group.

Here's some info about pensioner poverty in the UK
https://www.independentage.org/hidden-two-million

Oh I remember some awful Coronation threads and Camilla being described as "the old bag on the throne". Just awful.

Yes very similar to me!

I got told by a colleague last week that I didn't look old enough to have child going off to university. You could see the look of utter incomprehension when I said my oldest child was 34 😂

It's such a sweeping generalisation as others have said to paint all boomers as selfish. I don't understand why young people think older people don't care about others - I have kids as do many - I want them to have a good life and am furious at all sorts of things our government has done to make their lives more difficult than mine. But in many ways they have had it easier because I had to leave school at 16 had no financial support and have worked very hard my whole life to make their lives easier.

Well said! No doubt those who despise boomers will be quick out of the woodwork when Granddad’s will is read!

@VolvoFan Because under 25s have more crashes than other age groups.

I had my youngest child at 41 - forgot that in my last post. My husband is 68 and we are as involved and as on the ball with her and her friends as we were when we had ds when I was 35 and he was 43 (mind you, some people would consider us being far too old to have kids at those ages...)

The only time I think about my age seriously is when I'm at work with much younger people and I either get blank looks talking about a tv programme/song form 'the olden days' or I look at them and realise I'll be dead or 100 when they're my age.

Some of the comments on this thread, I've had to laugh or I'll cry - and <we're> the rude and nasty generation?

So am I. We probably won’t get a reply, because it was a glib response, not based on anything at all, from some bitter, envious, pathetic character who blames those older and wiser who have made something of themselves!

I 100% agree that when you reach a certain age you should have to do yearly basic driving tests. Yes a lot of people will lose the ability to drive and indépendance, but if they can’t meet a basic safety threshold then that’s it.

For me (older Millennial), I regularly get told by my MIL (in her 70s) how much easier everything is now, because of how hard everything was when she was younger. Mortgage rates etc.

Yes, lots of things were harder then than they are now. And I'm very grateful for all the change the older generations pushed for that has made those things easier. But different things are harder now. House prices, for example, have risen much more sharply than wages. So while the rates are (still) lower, the ability to get the money together and pass affordability to buy a house is much more difficult. The cost of living has made it so that while the norm when I was a child was to have a SAHP and a parent working full time, it's now seen as a luxury and more often than not both parents need to work. Which then brings added costs of nursery fees, wraparound care, etc.

All generations have things that make life hard. What we're all facing at the moment though is the recent governments making stupid decisions that are going to topple the country. That's not a "boomer" Vs "millennial" issue. That's just a massive issue that's caused a lot of other issues.

Obviously the answer to the issues affecting lower income groups, both young and old, is to NOT generalise by age or any other unhelpful grouping together of widely varied groups.

Instead focus on providing for the needs of all in those groups whatever their age. More social housing (including for the 2 million over 50s private renting) would be one of the main ways to address the problems.

Studies have found that poorer older people have usually been in poverty for years. So they've never 'had it good'. Others experienced Shit Happens change in circumstances. Like bereavement, illness, domestic violence, divorce, redundancy, caring for a disabled child.

Generalisations ignore the less fortunate. Which is a big reason why there's increasing pensioner poverty. They're too often a hidden and ignored group, so not enough is done for them. That needs to change.

@Againname excellent points

I suppose they need someone to blame as they are so frustrated that they are unable to buy a house,or have to pay extortionate rent

I don't blame them but I didn't think it is the older generation who are to blame and there are many factors at play

My FIL is in his 70s. He gets panic attacks on high speed roads and therefore doesn't drive far. My MIL has a bad shoulder and can't drive far. That means neither of them can take each other to medical appointments in another county should either of them be referred to clinics further away. There is a volunteer car service that they use but it's not always available, so either myself or DH have to take them. My point here is that they're not as independent as they used to be. Is that what you'd prefer and be happy with? Those 'silly, dangerous old codgers' to accept not being able to drive?

My personal favourite are the posters who had their kids in their early 20s, telling women in their late 30s that it’s selfish for them to have kids then, because they’ll be too frail to play with them and they won’t live to see them grow up!! Fortunately they’re a minority, and most people can see there are pros and cons to having kids at different ages.

None of those are ageism
They are all reasonable observations.
Ageism would be saying someone of 60 is not mentally capable of doing the work or other stereotypes.

60 is old dependingon what you mean by old. It's older than middle age. Life expectancy is around 80.
And I don't think it's reasonable for 70yr olds who don't need the income to be working in jobs when younger people can't find a job.

@EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon

A solemn assertion from one pp earlier in the year that '60 isn't young. It's old.' like middle age doesn't even exist.

I agree in general- but 60 isn’t middle aged, unless people are going to be living to 110-120.

There isn’t a universal definition of ‘old’, but 60 is closer to death than to birth, by quite a margin for most people.

There is nothing wrong with being old so there is no need to keep trying to define greater and greater ages as ‘not old’.