School fees and inheritance. I have my hard hat

[barenakedhazy]

I have 3 children, currently all at Uni. My sister is child free by choice.

11 years ago my husband and I sat down and did the maths about school fees for secondary school. We had planned to send our children privately but the youngest two were
twins and while affording 2 would have been possible, 3 wasn't. We were disappointed as we'd planned for this school, but instead started looking into moving house.

When we told my dad this he made us an offer. He'd recently sold his house to downsize to a small flat in an over 50s block and he was cash rich. He offered to pay for the kids to go to school. He felt really strongly about them going and this mattered to him- more than it mattered to us frankly. To ensure their education wouldn't be disrupted he paid the school for 7 years up front for each child. This was just over £100k each.

He then changed his will stipulating that my sister would get the first £300k of any inheritance, with the remainder split between us. (Look - before people start pulling this apart it was a lot more complicated and involved- this is just a simplified summary). He felt confident this wouldn't be a problem as he owned a property he'd paid £250k for and had another £200k left after paying the school fees, as well as a good pension for day to day living.

Over the next 10 years things weren't brilliant. In summary- flat was a terrible investment which cost £50k in 5 years for leasehold repairs and eventually sold for less than he bought it. There were some mistaken investments. He helped out his sister with a loan and she then died and our cousins were dreadful and said without a legal loan agreement they wouldn't repay from her estate. Finally there was a fall that hospitalised him and left him wheelchair bound and needing full time care.

My dad died 7 months ago and after over 5 years in a care home there was almost nothing left for an inheritance.

My sister and I are joint executors and she is furious. She says I got over £300k and she got nothing. She wants £150k off my husband and I to make it "fair".

I understand she's upset and do see how it seems wrong. However we weren't going to go the private school route as we couldn't afford it- this was something that mattered to my Dad and which he did for his grandchildren. I said I see it as a gift to his grandchildren- she says she's being punished for being child free.

I was sympathetic but she's been so bloody horrible that I'm at the stage of just telling her to get lost and never speaking to her again. She's made Dad's death all about money and seems more upset that there's no inheritance than the fact that he's died. She visited rarely and had nothing to do with setting up the care home or managing the fees- I had POA and did all of that. Now she wants his accounts audited and I'm so angry at the implication that I mismanaged things.

Anyway. AIBU to tell her that she's not getting £150k off us? We do have the money as we are both in well paid jobs and she's always struggled to find her niche which I think makes things harder. She lives alone and doesn't have a lot saved for retirement which has been worrying her, so I think some of this is because she was relying on dad's money. However if she'd have bothered to get involved in his care she'd have seen the situation in real time.

She could have made clear she wasn’t happy with him spending so much money on the kid’s school fees and perhaps the OP would also have dissuaded him. It sounds like she was only angry when the estate was finalised.

It’s still irrelevant - the father made the choice and put the risk on the sister. The OP has no moral obligation to make it right.

I think a good way of framing it is how you'd feel if it were your own DC. I'm wondering if op will come back to the thread.

You say that your father was manipulative - I think he probably was - he rewarded you, with strings attached, for making life choices he approved of, and he kept your sister on a long string based on a promise of some later reward.

From experience - she has probably felt this manipulation, disapproval, favouritism in more than one way and maybe deliberately kept her distance to protect herself.

I think this is likely a very astute observation of the family dynamics at play here. But one that it's always almost impossible for the golden child (for want of a better term) to acknowledge.

We've lent money to one child, and not others. We expect that child to adhere to the arrangement, that the money lent will be taken out of inheritance. Only fair thing to do.

You should not have allowed parent to pay for all 3 children, instead of just the one, if you were not prepared to do this.

I'm sorry for your loss, OP.

It sounds like everyone has made some poor decisions here.

Would you rather have money or your sister?

She's been left with no inheritance and the knowledge that her father made sure to give money to one child's family but not to her, on top of having lost her father. You have the ability to ease some of her feelings of hurt and injustice.

I think if I were parachuted in to this situation, I'd discuss with her about making things more equitable. Not necessarily to the tune of £150k if that would be financially crippling, but something that would feel a bit better than what ended up happening with the will.

This

Absolutely no way. You shouldn't give her anything.

Your dad paid £300k fees by choice - it was his own suggestion. You did not benefit in any way from the money. Your kids did. Also, your dad made some bad financial decisions and you should not have to pay for those.

You have 3 kids who will probably want to get onto the property ladder, given their ages. Even if you have £150k lying about - that will presumably be easily eaten by giving each £50k deposit (to say nothing of the £30k uni fees per year they are incurring between them).

She hasn't helped with your dad, she doesn't even recognise your kids.

If she was a decent person and had helped with your dad and/or had kids, I might feel differently.

But no, not a penny for her. If she cuts you off, so be it.

Even if he had only paid £100k for the fees and left £100k to the sister, it doesn’t even sound like she’d be getting that.

He could very easily have given each of them £100K and still had more again left over. He just decided that his other DD - who it sounds could really have used it (unlike OP) - should have to wait for it for potentially many years, for no reason whatsoever.

What he has done is give OP's sister the very clear message that people who don't have children have somehow failed and don't deserve any kind of financial assistance or guaranteed equal future provision for their crime of not having children. I would say that OP's attitude seems to mirror this, by insisting that SHE and her DH have not benefited, but it's all for the children - and her determination to justify hanging on to the available money that morally should go straight to her sister.

As a parent, I utterly deplore people who don't have children - whether through choice or not - being treated as second-class citizens. Absolutely disgusting.

The sister lives 350 miles away and wasn’t privy to the full amount spent, nor was she privy to her DF’s worsening finances as OP had the POA and never told the sister she posted that she though her sister would “know’ because “care homes are in the news”

The sister’s only error is in trusting her DF and sister would do right by her.

OP didn't see a penny of the 300k. She didn't get anything. Her kids got educated.

I was on your side until:
A- you mentioned that you had £150k+ in savings
B - you wanted to use that savings to give to the children that have previously benefited from your dad's money.
C - you are trying to say your dad was manipulative with the money! You could have said no!
D- 'we are not rich' read the room, some people will not want £150k in a lifetime and many are so poor they cannot it, so to sit and claim we are not rich' is bloody delusional!

Stop being so entitled and give your sister the money. You have had your share, give her what is hers!

the father made the choice and put the risk on the sister. The OP has no moral obligation to make it right.

She may not have a legal obligation, but she sure as hell has a moral obligation. Love to know what moral code you ascribe to!

@KickHimInTheCrotch expresses exactly how I feel.
Give your sister the money, OP.

This is actually pretty fair.
Dad was frustrated with my sister's life choices and much more approving of mine (job, house, marriage, children.) She went through some pretty tough times and he did bail her out a few times- once with a rehab stay and once with a deposit for a house (full transparency- only about £15k 20 years ago so I'm not considering that.)
She's consistently made choices which screw things up.
The nice chap and house and job she had 11 years ago - gone because she slept with her married coworker.
Rehab
Dropping out of uni in her final year with 2 terms to go.
She's been a masseuse and a ship's entertainer and worked in a stables and ran a pub briefly and sold cars and worked in a call centre and none of these jobs have stuck. Dad got really upset.

We weren't going to send the children privately. Dad wanted it and paid. He then made some dreadful financial choices - there would have been money left without the loan and the loss making flat and the poor investments. DH and I have structured our lives around working towards sensible financial goals and I feel like I'm being punished for dad's poor choices.

Also the £150k savings isn't just my money. DH who was never that keen on the school idea contributed most of it.

If your father hadn't paid the school fees would there have been an inheritance now or would care home fees have taken it?

If there would have been nothing left in the estate regardless of whether or not the school fees were paid, does OP still owe her sister?

You’re accusing your sister of caring more about the money?!

You’re the one withholding.

Everyone I know would have paid up in a heartbeat.

Also OP, it's easy for posters on here to be generous with your money. They aren't the ones looking at paying out.

I think you should give her 150k to help her in her later years. Your dad wanted to give her the same as you but wasn't able to so you can give her her half. He didnt want to cut her out of the will.
You did get school fees paid for, which has saved you the expense and a comfortable old age for her is just as important as school fees. Would you really cut her out for the sake of 150k? What would your dad have thought of that?

Yep. Also something to think about- I don’t like other people’s children particularly, mostly they are boring and annoying and I wouldn’t choose to spend time with them. I also have a bloody great life child free as I am. But that doesn’t mean that I was not gutted when our one round of ivf failed and when I’ve had to be faced time and time again with the fact I never had the chance to be a mother. I expect lots of people think I never wanted kids too. I wouldn’t disclose this to people face to face either and certainly not my siblings.

as for ‘I thought she would have known’- pull the other one, it’s got bells on. I literally do all the sorting out stuff for my parents’ care and find out new stuff all the time because it’s confusing and I don’t think if you aren’t doing it that you have any idea quite how expensive it is and what that looks like in reality. I’d be incredibly disingenuous to say that I assumed my sibling who lives far away would know about it all because how could they??

Of course you have benefited more than your sister so of course she feels hard done by. Example number but say your dad had £500k

£300k went on school fees
£200k went on his house/living expenses
£0 left

If he didn’t gift your children it would have been
£500k available
£200k on house/living expenses
£300k left to be split

So yes your sister is out of pocket because of your children’s education.

I would be pissed too

I think your savings go towards housing deposits for your children, and you invest in the next generation.

Your sister was hoping for an inheritance, and there wasn't one - that's the way the cookie crumbles.

I own a property. I tell my kids their inheritance is the opportunity to live in the city rent free today, and there is no way of knowing if there will be anything to inherit when I die. Yes if I go under a bus tomorrow. No if I need a care home for 10 years.

What tripe - blaming the OP and creating a false moral obligation because she should have foreseen her father making these bad decisions. It was the father’s choice - he felt like he had adequately catered for the sister in the will and he screwed it up.

If her DF had bought a house for them with the £300k you be like there’s no benefit because they didn’t see a penny, they got a roof over their heads? You don’t have to see the money to directly benefit,

Aaaah so now your sister is a mental screw up who makes crap choices so deserves to feel like a second class person to her own father. Got it.

Well she did in an indirect way - she and her DH were able to take less stressful jobs and work nearer home. I'm sure if she thought carefully she'd find that they were also able to pay a bit more into their pensions, and maybe go on nice holidays.