Farage is leader of the opposition

[Aladdinzane]

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/general-election-live-updates-reform-labour-tories-3110227

Farage is claiming he is the de facto leader of the opposition and that he should get a head to head debate with Starmer. His party currently holds no seats.

What do you think?

Is someone positioning himself for something after the election?

They have a working contract (just had a look).

To be honest it doesn’t read as “we hate foreigners “, it addresses stuff that has just been fudged around in the last few years.

Like I said, if there is no damage in illegal immigration let’s have those discussions to shed light on it. Show up what a tit Farage is.
Unfortunately any talks thus far with our current leaders don’t seem to address or change anything.

Many threads on MN have come to a conclusion that a European health insurance system is inevitable at some point, that the NHS is beyond repair in its current form. Again, have real conversations about how the NHS can be sorted would be good right about now. As it is the “plans” (in the loosest sense of the word) I’ve heard/read so far have no substance and no real way of showing how improvements are actually going to be achievable. But it needs thrashing out, not dismissing because someone’s saying something unpopular.

Farage is absolutely a bandwagon grifter, but he appears to have listened to people’s concerns and appears to be willing to take them seriously, which is more than can be said for Sunak and Starmer. Tories have had 14 years to make a dent on the mess we’re in. Starmer has had 4 years of being leader of the opposition. We don’t have a lot to show for it. Maybe if things weren’t such a shambles there wouldn’t be such a public appetite for Reform.

To be clear I am not voting Reform, I’m not right wing in any way. However I feel like I’ve learned from the Brexit shitshow that it’s not enough to put up with lazy polarisation. That way chaos and destruction lies.

Farage is a grifter who cares about two things only: his media profile and his bank account.

If he wins the Clacton seat (which is a reasonable assumption) his constituents will soon find out that his field of fucks is entirely barren with regard to them. Anyone voting for him - or one of his merry band of swivel-eyed loons - in the belief that having a Reform MP will in any way improve their life, is going to be sorely, sorely disappointed.

He was a shit, lazy, self-interested MEP and he'll be a shit, lazy, self-interested MP, and a shit, lazy, self-interested Leader of the Reform-atives. He lives to stir the pot, nothing else.

😂

Not a chance in hell.

Reform's vote is spread too thinly across the country.

They probably will get a decent number of votes. UKIP did too, once upon a time.

That doesn't translate into seats though. 1, at most.

Now, whether or not you think that is right is another matter, but that is how it is under FPTP.

I agree that the not admitting who you will vote for could be a factor - it was for the Brexit polls.

I'd love to see them go head to head in a debate !!

What about Thatcher, Blair, Cameron?

They were party leaders with majority governments behind them. As for Liz Truss, the damage done was undone within 3 months. It’s only the economically illiterate that think interest rates today are down to blink and you miss it Liz Truss premiership and not due to half a trillion of money printing to pay for covid lockdowns.

All of them, as important as they were, Compared with a one man band who single handedly led the country to Brexit.

It takes an incredible amount of naivety to think that parliamentarians are solely responsible for shaping the way the this country is run. For decades, Lobbyists and in the last 30 years single issue campaigners like Farage have been steering the political debate to a large extent.

Again, rational people don’t allow their dislike of someone to cloud their view of reality. Asking the media to ignore him is childish wishful thinking.

Those are just polls.

I wouldn't put it past Fartage tampering with polls. Don't ask me how, I'm hardly a poll engineer myself, but if there's a way, he'll have found it.

I fully expect this sorry excuse of a "party" to get their asses handed to them on the election day.

And no, I don't vote Tory.

You asked which MPs had had more influence than Farage in the last 30 years. I named three and, oh look, is that the goalposts being moved? Yes, there they go.

Just like Farage, no substance behind the bluster at all. If you think Nige "singlehandedly lead the UK to brexit" then well, there really is no helping you.

I think you echo the thoughts of a LOT of people 👏👏

He didn't singlehandedly steer Brexit at all. The EU was a big split in the Tory party for years before Farage and UKIP. And it was Johnson - along with Cummings and Gove - who tipped it.

Ha,haha - he's just handing the election to Labour on a plate is all....and a few extra seats to the Lib Dems too. Although I do think much of what he says appeals to the Red Wall so it's still early days yet.

I don’t think - I think he has a plan to rejoin the Tories last minute and just trying to prove that he can get popularity and shake things up. His only hope of making changes is from the inside via the Tories so clearly that is his actual plan so he can steer them right

Not yet, he's not. He's always been perceived as popular and in a way he is but he's never yet taken a single seat from the Tories. We'll see.

Nigel Farage and Reform are the smiling faces of facism in shiny suits. They're not that dissimilar to Oswald Mosely and his black shirt brigade who were misogynistic, racist, anti semitic and homophobic.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjmmrwexv4ko.amp

Is it the “Nigel Farage Poll” conducted by Nigel Farage?

I do wonder how our politics over the years would have been different if we had PR instead of FPTP

The Lib Dems and Greens might have had more seats - who knows what effect PR might have in the future?

I agree with this.

He's not an effective communicator. He's appealing to those within the electorate that are disgruntled, those that feel aggrieved and ignored. Those that want to protest, dissent, rebel. Those that feel they are not represented.

Sure, that means something is missing from modern politics. But I believe a lot is driven by social media. Driven by algorithms and also a lot of people live in an echo chamber. Something that posters who accuse others of a left wing persuasion of being guilty of, but not seeing that same accountability in themselves.

Farage is like Johnson. As Hesseltine described him, he sees which way some folk are going and runs ahead. He is the epitome of the self serving politician. His track record proves this, as it did with Johnson. Why some people continue to excuse them for their shortfalls, bewliders me.

For those who think he represents their views, he doesn't. A PP said their husband would be voting for Reform because he couldn't align with the privileged upbringing of both Conservative politicians and Labour alike. Farage is not and has never been working class. Do those who wish to protest really read the manifestos? Or are they of the mind that "they all lie anyway, so..?"

If I'm honest, I think it often comes across as a lazy and selfish way to vote. Is it really thinking of the wider community in mind? What has he said his party will do to help the disabled for example?

Despite all I've said, I actually do understand why some people have found themselves in a place whereby feel this way. I just don't agree.

The OP also mentioned a 'rumour' that he may want to be the leader of the Conservatives. Of course, that's what he wants. He wants to create divide. He will very likely cross the floor if he wins his seat. He will for sure put himself forward for leadership of the party in that case. That's his ultimate aim.

To the PP who said imagine how effective he would have been if his views were Centrist. It wouldn't have happened. For one, he isn't Centrist. Secondly, he just wouldn't have appealed. Yes, we need to ask ourselves why nobody in this country does actually appeal to those of us who are Centrist. Surely that would make more sense. Someone who neither represented neither the apparent Far Left nor the Far Right.

It's obviously the same as the US. Why are Trump and Biden the only real options? Surely there's scope for something more neutral and middle ground? That again begs the question: how much of politics is influenced by social media, algorithms and downright meddling?

Politics is indeed broken. Everything goes in cycles for sure, propaganda has played a part for centuries. Maybe, though, there's just too much influence by outside sources these days.

Only we as individuals can decide what our vote will truly mean. When we cast our vote, I believe we all have to realise what the consequences can and will be. And we should own that fully.

a) Sunak won't be the leader of the conservatives after the election
b) Farage is an exceptionally dangerous man who has even less respect for the public and democracy than any other person in politics. That's why Reform isn't set up like a typical political party with members who can vote on matter.

Be careful what you wish for.

Oh god the "Farage led brexit" myth.

Without the Back Bench Business Committee who formed in 2010 and pushed through the first vote on a referendum in 2011, then none of it would have kick started. It was the division in the Tory party that led Cameron to say he'd have a referendum, and he was promising it long before UKIP won a lot of seats in the EU parliament in 2014. Farage was nothing to do with influincing this, UKIP had won a tiny share of the vote in 2010 and had their deposit in many seats.

So the BBBC were the impetus for the vote, to stop division in the Tory party, and what tipped it was Boris and Cummings ( and maybe Gove). Boris was relatively popular after his stint as London Mayor and the highest profile politician attached. Imagine the campaign as led by IDS, Gove, Farage, they would never have convinced a lot of wavering voters, Boris chutzpah and bumbling charm combined with Cummings strategy, that's what won it. Without them the team leading it look like the creatures of the night.

Farage has bigged up his own part, but he wasn't significant.

What has he said his party will do to help the disabled for example?

I read on MN that he has plans to open loads of juvenile detention centres, which, like the young male prison population we currently have, will be jam packed with young people with undiagnosed disabilities. Sadly that will please lots of voters.

It’s important to talk about it, so people know what they’re voting for. Unfortunately I know potential reform voters who would vote even if Farage blatantly told them “we’re racist”, but clarity would hopefully show less extreme voters what they’re aligning with. At the moment it’s too shut down and the party line looks like common sense to those despairing about the current state of the country and the political choices we are faced with.

Angus Robertson tried to claim that the SNP were, functionally, the official opposition at Westminster when Labour played dead after the Brexit vote. He didn't get very far despite the fact that there was very clearly a vacuum and his was the next largest party in Parliament. I don't see how Farage can be leading the opposition given that he had 1 MP at the time of Parliament's dissolution and he wasn't in it, but I suppose it can be revisited after the election when we know his and his party's status.

He's not talking about illegal migration much at the moment, it's the 7 or 800,000 legal that he's objecting to.

I think a lot of people are going to be surprised on July 4th at how much support he has. It’s easy on mumsnet to dismiss him, because MN is an echo chamber for the left, so if we look to this site for affirmation of anything to do with the Tories, Labour or Reform, reality is always going to be skewed.

Reform have exactly the same problem as UKIP did - undoubtably a lot of support but none of it focused around particular constituencies. The lib dems/SNP are polling much lower than reform but will easily end up with more MPs.

Reform will get a decent share of the vote overall, but at best can only win 1 seat. That's just a fact of how the electoral system in the UK works.