That restaurants should know parmesan isn't vegetarian?

[SpikyCoconut]

My Mum has booked this restaurant and asked if I want to come along.

Surely the chef should know this?

https://www.315barandrestaurant.co.uk/

Wibu to get in touch with them and ask if it is actually a parmesan substitute (in which case it should be labelled correctly!) Or if they can develop a different dish that actually IS vegetarian? There are two dishes with parmesan on the vegetarian menu.

@Scooby2024

I've bought vegetarian Parmesan too, clearly has the V on the packaging. I'm thinking that it now is made from lab cultured rennet? We need to reach out to an Italian cheese maker for answers! It's only in the last couple of years I've seen it

Absolutely.

If someone is vegetarian for texture or dietary reasons that is one thing, but no vegetarian can try and hold some kind of moral high ground with inferences of animal welfare concerns.

I've found on MN and another forum, the vegetarians do this a lot whereas the vegans don't tend to have moral outrage of why is this restaurant/cafe/Hotel not catering to vegan posts, yet it's vegans who get tarred with that brush elsewhere and the veggies get off scott free from the venom (admittedly, there are some extreme vegan protesters that I don't agree with, nothing can or should be forced upon people and it's aggressive and controlling to do so)

I never expect a place to HAVE to serve a vegan option. I call ahead, ask, and if they don't, I go somewhere else, no moaning, no fuss.

A small cafe opened last year on a little village green near where I live. It's run by a couple of older ladies and they said they hadn't thought of plant based alternative milks (to be fair neither did Greggs until recently) so I asked if it was OK if I took a little pot of my own PB milk in when I go for coffee and they were happy with that. When you're in the minority, you need to learn how to work around and find compromises, rather than complain online and trying to shame specific restaurants.

Yep. I find it odd too.

I do eat meat but I'm lactose intolerant so I don't consume much milk although I do eat cheese.

A lot of people claim to be vegi and don't actually know what goes in to food production. I had one at a temporary workplace insist all the canteen meat was halal. They served bacon butties.

It doesn’t seem like a very vegetarian friendly place to me. It has their vegetarian leaf symbol next to crab bruschetta?

My DD was amazed to discover when we were on holiday last year that wine isn’t vegetarian either. It hasn’t stopped her drinking it though.

You can get vegetarian wine (and vegan wine now I think). She might just need to check the labels carefully. Although she doesn’t sound too fussed!

@VJBR Frankly I find most vegan food unappealing and not that healthy. Two much salt is often used to give it flavour. Filo pastry with Mediterranean veg, caramelised onion and pesto sounds pretty good compared to some vegan dishes I’ve seen.

It sounds fine but it's lacking protein if you remove the cheese. I'm bored of goats' cheese (every sodding menu) but the alternative is vegan cheese.

I find many of the plant-based meat and dairy substitutes hard to digest. I'd rather not eat a meal out and then suffer.

Yes. But when they do have supposedly ‘vegetarian’ meals on a vegetarian menu, then they should be vegetarian.

But when they do have supposedly ‘vegetarian’ meals on a vegetarian menu, then they should be vegetarian.
I agree.
They would not get away with claiming an item was free of sesame seeds if it wasn't.

I disagree with you and the majority of commenters. I haven't read past page 1 but this is my understanding:

Vegetarian - does not eat meat or fish. Can consume animal products, such as eggs, milk, extracts, butter, fat, and so on.

Vegan - does not eat meat, fish, or animal products. No animal fats, no honey, no eggs, and so on, or anything that is produced from an animal, such as rennet.

Obviously as human beings people are welcome to twist and change the definitions of these ideologies however they please, but traditionally vegetarians CAN consume animal products. It is vegans who CANNOT.

So I don't think what the chef has said here is wrong at all - cheese is vegetarian, even those containing rennet, as they do not contain MEAT or FISH and and just contain animal products - which vegetarians are allowed and do eat, by traditional definition.

If vegetarians can't consume animal products, what is the distinction between vegetarianism and veganism?

I agree that 'real' Parmesan isn't vegetarian, but I think it's a bit obtuse to say there's no such things as veggie parmesan because of the name- we widely accept terms such as 'vegan bacon' even though it clearly isn't actually bacon. Maybe the restaurant is using veggie parmesan- I would ask them before coming onto an online forum to shame them about it tbh.

To create rennet, the calf needs to be killed in order to extract the enzyme.

You don't have to kill a chicken to get an egg.

I did!

Brakes are the major supplier to the catering industry and they only sell non vegetarian parmesan.

It is therefore safer to assume that the Parmesan is not safe for vegetarians as the waiting staff are not going to know and I really wouldn't trust the chef to be 100% truthful even if they did know if it makes their token veggie dish not veggie at all!

I think that the increase in veganism has almost 'downgraded' vegetarianism in a lot of ignorant people's minds.

I reckon they see a vegan as a 'proper vegetarian' and a vegetarian as somebody who is 'a bit fussy about meat, but isn't all that bothered as long as they can't really taste it'.

I don't really get what the difference is, though, between caring about the welfare of bees if you eat avocados and not being bothered about the welfare of animals who are killed by pesticides - or even the blades of combine harvesters - in humans wanting to keep/gather the crops all for themselves?

@SpikyCoconut

This was the thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5093100-being-vegetarian-is-so-tiresome?page=1

It’s not part of my dietary mindset so I don’t know. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Sorry, that wasn't really aimed at (or challenging) you - more pondering following the report that you linked to.

The male chicks are killed, at the most you could raise them to fully grown then eat them. You'd be overun by cockerels otherwise.

As an 80s child, avocado = face mask. 🤮

A male calf is also a by-product of the dairy industry. Vegetarians drive that industry just like omnivores. They can hardly all be kept in sanctuaries.

Frankly you sound insufferable. You can clearly request the vegan option, that’s one choice. You can contact them in advance and ask whether their cheese is with a vegetarian rennet. That’s a second choice. You can decline the invitation - that’s a third choice. All of these were options that I’m pretty sure you were fully aware of.

Quite simply, while the term vegetarian is in common usage to mean “no meat”, and that is commonly understood to mean don’t give me a chunk of meat - I think you are being unreasonable to get this angry about a place that might, but also might not, use a cheese you won’t eat.

Why do restaurants (and especially caterers) offer vegan but not non-vegan vegetarian? - it’s because they are running a business and need to make profit, and unless they’re getting lots of orders for their vegetarian and vegan options it’s not worth offering too many menus. Same with other restrictions - the vegan might also be gluten free to add that group in as well.

When you have a very restricted diet you’re eating out options are restricted. I’m continually confused by people who don’t understand this. Unless they have enough people coming through buying their different vegan and vegetarian options there’s no good business motivation to offer more. Vegetarian, especially strict vegetarian, is a heavily restricted diet.

If you’re a vegetarian that won’t eat cheese without confirming it’s vegetarian that’s fine. But I doubt you are the majority of diners purchasing that vegetarian dish - and so it’s not unexpected that for most places vegetarian means we didn’t add meat. Also - you don’t even know whether they are using a vegetarian cheese or have a vegetarian cheese option available! An Italian restaurant I love asks if you want parmesan just as they ask if you want pepper - you can just say no!

@Snooglequack , who elected you to decide where others draw the line of what they will or won’t eat. Mind your own business.

That looks like an amazing menu for a vegetarian.

They clearly know that parmesan isnt veggie as there is an alternative that is veggie friendly. Not everyone who eats off a vegetarian menu is a vegetarian. Many meat eaters also might like the sound of that dish.

BTW - i am a very strict vegetarian so i would before ordering it want to know if the other dishes that have cheese are suitable.

Of course, I was simply explaining the difference in vegetarian terms.

Yes chickens die as a result of the egg industry, but you don't literally need to murder a chicken in order to extract an egg- the same way that calfs don't lay rennet.