Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

For disputing my ex landlords claim on our deposit?

90 replies

Magentaplasticglasses · 06/06/2024 01:05

Sorry for the long post, I don't want to drip feed.

We moved out of a rental property last month. The landlords want to take our entire deposit. They are claiming they need our entire deposit because they apparently need to:

  • re-carpet all rooms: There were no marks on the bedroom or living room carpets, it just looks like they've been walked on regularly which they obviously have. The spare room was just used as storage for toys, board games and memory boxes because the flat had limited cupboard space. The room was unused on a day to day basis so there isn't even general wear and tear in there. The end of tenancy inspection confirms there are no marks on any carpets, just dust on the skirting boards and in the corners of the rooms, and a bit of mildew on the window due to age of the property and the living room windows being closed for a week (we moved to the other end of the country, so the property was empty for a week)
  • replace all the radiators: The landlord has decided the grills on the top of the radiators are loose, and has claimed we have damaged them. Other than turn the thermostat on and off, and adjust the radiator knob to change the temperature of the radiator, we haven't done anything to the radiators. We didn't dry laundry on them, as per our contract, and we've never noticed any issues with them. They've always worked normally and looked fine. The end of tenancy inspection was incredibly thorough to the point of downgrading one room because there was a single cobweb. They also didn't pick up any issues in their checks of the radiators, and only mentioned "a small amount of dust" on the tops of them.
  • Repaint the entire flat, including the ceilings: The walls are magnolia, so show everything. DH also has a significant physical disability and needs to put his hands on the walls to balance when he walks, which also means things wear more quickly. The landlords previously denied permission to put rails on areas where DH is prone to losing his balance, so using the wall was unavoidable.

I checked the tenancy deposit scheme, and any reported marks or scuffs on the wall, meet their criteria of wear and tear. The end of tenancy report has also graded the paintwork as "normal wear and tear". We don't smoke or vape, and we've not altered the ceilings in any way. They were also graded as white and unmarked by the estate agent, so again, they haven't picked up any issues. The landlord has declined the estate agents request for clarification about why they need to deduct the cost of painting the ceilings from our deposit.

After all of this, I emailed the estate agent, and said we will be disputing the claims about needing the whole deposit to refit and redecorate the flat, as it's clear it is normal wear and tear, and the landlord cannot charge for this. I said that ultimately the burden of proof and any costs associated with that lies with the landlord, so if he feels it is more than wear and tear, he needs to prove it.

I was very clear that we will not be consenting to any of our deposit being released to the landlord until he has provided proof that any changes to the flat are more than normal wear and tear. I also said that we are willing to pay for an end of tenancy deep clean, because the inspection reported dust and minor mildew on the window due to the property being empty. However, I expressed that DH and I would like at least 3 quotes to show the cleaners charges are in line with local prices, and that we will require a receipt to confirm the final cost of the clean, because we do not feel the landlords are acting fairly or honestly regarding the deposit.

The landlord has responded to the estate agent saying he disagrees with our dispute, he will not be sending quotes, he will not compromise on the deposit, and that he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests.

AIBU?

P.s. I'm sorry for the length of this. It became a bit of a vent post and was incredibly cathartic to write out.

OP posts:
Precipice · 06/06/2024 01:11

Of course not! Every claim by a landlord for something that's not eminently reasonable should be disputed. That's part of the protection that deposit schemes were created to provide. Sadly, there are many CFs like your landlord who feel that they're entitled to claim on the deposit to improve their property (or just to pocket it).

he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests. He might have to if he wants to get somewhere with the deposit scheme.

Don't bother engaging with LL/agency at length. Dispute it with the deposit scheme.

Magentaplasticglasses · 06/06/2024 01:23

Precipice · 06/06/2024 01:11

Of course not! Every claim by a landlord for something that's not eminently reasonable should be disputed. That's part of the protection that deposit schemes were created to provide. Sadly, there are many CFs like your landlord who feel that they're entitled to claim on the deposit to improve their property (or just to pocket it).

he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests. He might have to if he wants to get somewhere with the deposit scheme.

Don't bother engaging with LL/agency at length. Dispute it with the deposit scheme.

I'm going to lodge a dispute with the TDS tomorrow. The landlord is honestly an absolute nightmare, and is clearly out for what he can get. The estate agent is (unsuccessfully) mediating to trying to get us to reach an agreement, so it doesn't have to become a dispute. He tried to "warn" me that a dispute can sometimes take weeks or months to resolve. I just reassured him that I budgeted for the deposit 3 years ago, so it won't affect us negatively if it's sat in the protection scheme while we sort this out.

OP posts:
billyt · 07/06/2024 09:02

Do not have any further discussions regarding reaching an agreement. The landlord is not allowed to gain betterment at your expense.

Just make your claim to the deposit scheme.

I'm not a LL but it's idiots like this that gives them all a bad name.

ToxicChristmas · 07/06/2024 09:09

YANBU at all.
We left a rental back in 2008 and the landlady tried the same thing about painting and carpets etc. We had lived there for years and the house wasn't in the best condition when we moved in. We left it in a better state than when we moved in! Of course carpets will have furniture marks and have worn down. You can't hover over them. We fought back and luckily ended up with the whole deposit back. We had the "warnings" from the agent too -absolute bullshit. Make a claim. Best of luck to you.

DexaVooveQhodu · 07/06/2024 09:10

Let the Deposit Protection Scheme adjudicate. You are right and the landlord is a shady bastard.

But I think it was a mistake to tell the agent that you have budgeted for the deposit and don't care too much. That might be interpreted that you'll guve in eventually.

You can get your own 3 quotes for the cost of and end of tenancy deep clean. Larger agency cleaners will have a fixed price on their website.

Anothnamechang · 07/06/2024 09:16

Some landlords are something else, we had one tell us that they wanted our deposit due to not up keeping the garden. The garden was all concrete, no grass, not even a weed inside of this tiny garden! We had not long painted the fences and fixed the gate which was already on the way to breaking when we moved in 😂

SoundTheSirens · 07/06/2024 09:17

YADNBU. Been there. We had an ex-LL try to withhold part of our deposit because, and I quote "the furniture has left dents in the bedroom carpets". I'm sorry, I didn't see the clause in the lease that said we had to use levitating furniture only.

Anyway, TDS basically laughed at him. He then tried to withhold the equivalent amount from the part of our last month's rent that was due to be returned to us because he had re-let the place immediately (guess that dented carpet wasn't a dealbreaker after all, hey?) so I opened a small claims court case. It was only a couple of hundred quid but it was MY money and the principle of the thing. Anyway, he paid up before it got to court so I say go for it OP, more tenants need to stand up against the kind of grasping, greedy, bully-boys who give private LLs a bad name.

(I have also had lovely LLs too, for balance.)

TheCultureHusks · 07/06/2024 09:22

Yep, don’t even engage, just dispute it through the scheme.

You’re doing all the right things. Take a million photos, and just cheerfully tell the agent that you’ll be REALLY happy to raise a dispute and don’t care if it takes years. They know already the landlord won’t win - ours didn’t with similar. That’s why they want you to reach an agreement. Don’t!

We had a horror landlord and an equally horror agent. Same situation. Once we said we’d be raising a dispute and started talking about all the comparative photos we had at start and end of tenancy they shrugged and gave the lot back. They will not win if it’s normal west and tear. Not a penny!

Beautifulbythebay · 07/06/2024 09:23

I am expecting a dispute also. Our ll inherited our house so hadn't seen it when we moved in. We have overhauled the back to some degree as it was a square of soil filled with dead rose bushes... We will be taking all our fencing /decking /pots /arch ways etc... It will be left a square of soil.. Not sure she knows that though I told the agent who came and valued the house.. Ll is selling up.

Hoppinggreen · 07/06/2024 09:24

I work in this area and you are being perfectly reasonable. If the LL won't provide evidence then he is very unlikley to be able to claim your deposit

DataPup · 07/06/2024 09:25

How long had you lived there? Were the carpets new and the walls newly painted when you moved in? There are guides online for expected lifetime for certain features.

We had a similar claim for the entire deposit. Things like shadow marks from photo frames. We had shelves up on the wall in question and the photos were up on the original advertising material before we moved in. We disputed everything as fair wear and tear except for a single mark on an 8 year old carpet in the boxroom. Ended up with getting all but fifty quid returned.

Edit: the agent also tried to imply that taking it to the dispute service was an arduous process and we might not win. It was actually super straightforward.

ItsFuckingBoringFeedingEveryoneUntilYouDie · 07/06/2024 09:26

All those things will fall under normal wear and tear. The TDS will take your part, as the system is set up to favour tenants. You have to have behaved pretty egregiously for them to find for the LL in my experience.

Duh · 07/06/2024 09:30

My former landlord wanted to keep our entire deposit- £2000 for the garden alone. The grass had become a bit patchy but nothing a £5 box of grass seed wouldn’t cover.

They sent a quote from a landscaper for £2k, it was ridiculous their website had panpipe music and they were talking about Japanese blossom!

The tenancy deposit scheme were having none of it.

Remember it is for the landlord to prove they have the right to retain your deposit not for you to prove they don’t.

PrincessTeaSet · 07/06/2024 09:32

They always try to keep the deposit. No amount of cleaning and maintenance will stop them trying. Landlords are a bunch of greedy, unreasonable people in my experience. Luckily that's what the deposit scheme is for. Don't compromise further, don't offer to pay for cleaning unless it was dirtier than when you moved in

purpleme12 · 07/06/2024 09:35

Just go via the tenancy deposit scheme
Absolutely go via their process.
I'm so glad I did. Landlord wanted to keep my whole deposit. When I questioned this he said he's actually entitled to claim more than my deposit and said if I don't agree he'd take me to small claims court.
I was unsure but took the risk he was bluffing and went via the scheme. It was relatively quick and I got about half back. I was happy with this, I expected them to keep a bit but didn't think they should kept it all.
And that was the end of it!

BallaiLuimni · 07/06/2024 09:37

The deposit scheme is (rightly) very biased towards the tenant - that's the whole point of it. Unless your LL can provide very solid evidence that they should retain your deposit you'll definitely get it back.

A LL did this to me years ago - the place had been pretty grotty when we moved in and we had actually improved it by cleaning it and keeping it fresh. I just said 'Ok we'll send our evidence to the deposit service and you can show exactly what we've damaged' and he backed down straight away because he knew the original pictures we took when we moved in would show he was full of shit.

I would always advise anyone moving into a rental to take A LOT of very detailed photos when they move in and date them. Why LLs still try this 'keeping the deposit' bullshit when the deposit scheme is so effective baffles me. I wonder if the agent is promised some sort of kickback for telling you it'll be hard to get your money? It simply isn't true.

AmelieTaylor · 07/06/2024 09:48

I just reassured him that I budgeted for the deposit 3 years ago, so it won't affect us negatively if it's sat in the protection scheme while we sort this out

@Magentaplasticglasses

You've done exactly the right thing! Just lodge your side of the deposit claim & keep repeating you'll let the deposits disputes deal with it.

i can't see any reason you won't get your deposit back it just sounds like wear & tear. Even where your DH uses the wall for balance (LL was a CUNT for not allowing you to put up rails) it may have made the walls grubby, but a coat of Magnolia needs to be done anyway between tenanants anyway really.

goid luck, hope your new LL is nicer!!

CatWithNoTeeth · 07/06/2024 12:11

My friend had to move out of a rented property after a couple of years, because the LL wanted it for his daughter who had left her husband. The LL tried to keep all the deposit, claiming my friend had wrecked the place and urinated on the radiators (???). There were reports from regular inspections from the agent saying the place was always spotless. The agent tried to withhold the reports initially, presumably thinking their money lay with the LL. My friend challenged it all and they were forced to repay. Unpleasant and stressful. I can't believe LLs are still trying this on.

Pemba · 07/06/2024 12:22

We had this when we left our last rental property at the end of 2022. The landlord tried to claim hundreds. We went through the Deposit Protection Service and they ajudicated very well. I didn't have to engage with the landlord again. They awarded him £50 in the end, I think he was just trying it on

It did take over 3 months though but luckily we were not desperate for the money.

Lovepeaceunderstanding · 07/06/2024 12:32

@Magentaplasticglasses , landlord here.
Your landlord is taking the P! The thing is he doesn’t have your deposit and can’t therefore decide to keep it. Dispute his claims, agencies fall down heavily in favour of tenants but it looks like he has very little in the way of legitimate claims anyway. You quite rightly point out that he should expect some reasonable wear and tear. Good luck.

Escothesia · 07/06/2024 12:35

Personally it sounds like the walls may need repainting?

Rookangaroo4 · 07/06/2024 12:37

How long have you been there? When our tenants left after 3 years I fully expected there to be a certain amount of wear and tear to carpets and paintwork. If someone was there 6 months i wouldn’t expect there to be much at all. Paintwork isn’t something that bothers me anyway because it’s always completely repainted before new tenants. Checks are every 6 months so it’s easy to see what needs fixing and our current tenant is very good at reporting even minor stuff straight away so it can be sorted before it gets too bad.

Crumpleton · 07/06/2024 12:47

Just a question...

Can a LL re rent a property if there's a dispute/they still owe the last tenants their deposit back or do they have to wait until its resolved.

ItsFuckingBoringFeedingEveryoneUntilYouDie · 07/06/2024 13:19

Escothesia · 07/06/2024 12:35

Personally it sounds like the walls may need repainting?

@Escothesia Doesn't matter, as long as it is fair wear and tear, not deliberate damage. LL cannot pass their cost for routine redecorating on to a tenant.

@Crumpleton yes, it can be rented out again. The deposit is completely separate from any new tenancy. From memory and a number of years ago so could be out of date now, the LL has to have invoices for work completed AND the TDS find for the LL for the equivalent deposit to go to the LL. Just saying stuff needs to be done is not good enough, as some less scrupulous LL would try to keep the deposit and not have the work done. So, they can crack on with getting a new tenant while it goes to resolution. The deposit is 100% the tenants unless TDS say otherwise.

MagnoliaStory · 07/06/2024 13:36

Dispute for sure. It was very easy to submit a claim online.

Our landlord tried to keep £2k of our deposit when we were renting during building works. I got £1.8k back. I should have got the £200 too, but I stupidly didn’t take a few photos at the end.

The EA Savills were assholes. I was more angry at them than the overseas landlord as Savills were the ones saying how much she should deduct!!