For disputing my ex landlords claim on our deposit?

[Magentaplasticglasses]

Sorry for the long post, I don't want to drip feed.

We moved out of a rental property last month. The landlords want to take our entire deposit. They are claiming they need our entire deposit because they apparently need to:

• re-carpet all rooms: There were no marks on the bedroom or living room carpets, it just looks like they've been walked on regularly which they obviously have. The spare room was just used as storage for toys, board games and memory boxes because the flat had limited cupboard space. The room was unused on a day to day basis so there isn't even general wear and tear in there. The end of tenancy inspection confirms there are no marks on any carpets, just dust on the skirting boards and in the corners of the rooms, and a bit of mildew on the window due to age of the property and the living room windows being closed for a week (we moved to the other end of the country, so the property was empty for a week)

• replace all the radiators: The landlord has decided the grills on the top of the radiators are loose, and has claimed we have damaged them. Other than turn the thermostat on and off, and adjust the radiator knob to change the temperature of the radiator, we haven't done anything to the radiators. We didn't dry laundry on them, as per our contract, and we've never noticed any issues with them. They've always worked normally and looked fine. The end of tenancy inspection was incredibly thorough to the point of downgrading one room because there was a single cobweb. They also didn't pick up any issues in their checks of the radiators, and only mentioned "a small amount of dust" on the tops of them.

• Repaint the entire flat, including the ceilings: The walls are magnolia, so show everything. DH also has a significant physical disability and needs to put his hands on the walls to balance when he walks, which also means things wear more quickly. The landlords previously denied permission to put rails on areas where DH is prone to losing his balance, so using the wall was unavoidable.

I checked the tenancy deposit scheme, and any reported marks or scuffs on the wall, meet their criteria of wear and tear. The end of tenancy report has also graded the paintwork as "normal wear and tear". We don't smoke or vape, and we've not altered the ceilings in any way. They were also graded as white and unmarked by the estate agent, so again, they haven't picked up any issues. The landlord has declined the estate agents request for clarification about why they need to deduct the cost of painting the ceilings from our deposit.

After all of this, I emailed the estate agent, and said we will be disputing the claims about needing the whole deposit to refit and redecorate the flat, as it's clear it is normal wear and tear, and the landlord cannot charge for this. I said that ultimately the burden of proof and any costs associated with that lies with the landlord, so if he feels it is more than wear and tear, he needs to prove it.

I was very clear that we will not be consenting to any of our deposit being released to the landlord until he has provided proof that any changes to the flat are more than normal wear and tear. I also said that we are willing to pay for an end of tenancy deep clean, because the inspection reported dust and minor mildew on the window due to the property being empty. However, I expressed that DH and I would like at least 3 quotes to show the cleaners charges are in line with local prices, and that we will require a receipt to confirm the final cost of the clean, because we do not feel the landlords are acting fairly or honestly regarding the deposit.

The landlord has responded to the estate agent saying he disagrees with our dispute, he will not be sending quotes, he will not compromise on the deposit, and that he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests.

AIBU?

P.s. I'm sorry for the length of this. It became a bit of a vent post and was incredibly cathartic to write out.

LL can hold it, I do, costs a small fee with a TDS provider

This.
We had the same experience with a greedy landlord and did the same thing. Told them we had photographed everything and would be delighted to argue our case at the tribunal (or whatever it's called), and sent a detailed letter explaining why the landlord's claims were nonsensical.The landlord gave in within a week, without even asking to see the photos, and we got the whole deposit back.

Remember - it is the landlord who has to prove that you have damaged the property beyond normal wear and tear. That's the key phrase: normal wear and tear.

Also you are not obliged to pay for a 'deep clean', this should be done anyway by the landlord before a new tenant moves in. All you have to do is leave the place clean and tidy, cleared of all your stuff, and with no structural damage. Take photos.

We went via TDS they were great and certainly not years, maybe a couple of months

My DH (bless him!) had taken loads of photos when we first moved in because he didn’t trust the estate agency - thank goodness !

The landlord honestly seemed completely detached from reality - also wanted full re-painting, new sofa, new hoover, the list went on

It included gems like “get it cleaned by agency A…” which we had actually used and could re-share the receipt with TDS

We got our entire deposit back

Definitely don’t let them get away with this, the greedy bastards. My last landlord tried similar tactics and I let it go to arbitration because neither of us were prepared to back down. Got the whole lot back. This might have something to do with them being caught lying in their own photo evidence they presented. I don’t think the rent deposit scheme people even fully looked into the claim tbh: just looked at the photos they’d clearly made shit up and gave me all of my money back. Which I never expected because there was some very small damage.

Ha! Our last landlord tried to claim £500 for a cracked fridge salad drawer and cleaning a blind (which I had given a sponge down but didn't want to wet it too much as it seemed to made of the flimsiest material known to man).

He also tried get end of tenancy painters in while we were still in occupancy, paying rent.

I’ve had some horrible greedy landlords in my time, before the deposit scheme was a thing. Thankfully your deposit is protected nowadays.

The landlord can’t request new replacement carpets etc even if you had damaged them, they would get the cost of a like for like replacement, eg if it’s 10yo they get the value of a 10yo carpet, not the value of a new carpet. Refuse all charges, but if you do end up paying, don’t pay the full price of new stuff!

Deposit scheme works well, landlord tried to retain full deposit and was only allowed to keep £5 for a lightbulb!

Is the deposit not held with a third party? It has nothing to do with EA?

Also you are not obliged to pay for a 'deep clean', this should be done anyway by the landlord before a new tenant moves in. All you have to do is leave the place clean and tidy, cleared of all your stuff, and with no structural damage.

Not true and sorry @Tomatina you sound like exactly the kind of tenant I don't want. Tenants should leave the place as they found it. If it's been professionally cleaned for you, then you leave it professionally cleaned or up to the standard of a professional clean for the next person. It's not the landlord's dirt and not their responsibility to clean for the next tenant. In reality, landlords do generally have to get cleaners in or do it themselves but if they can show they had the place cleaned for when the exiting tenant moved in, they can claim that back against the deposit if the tenant doesn't clean properly.

That sounds fair to me but unfortunately it doesn't always work like that as the deposit scheme companies usually find in the tenants' favour leaving the landlord having to clean up other people's shit (literally) and out of pocket. (Insert world's smallest violin comment here).

In the OP's case the landlord sounds like he's being unreasonable and she'll get all or most of her deposit back. But please don't pretend that tenants can't be utter twunts because I can assure they can and frequently are.

You will get all of your deposit back. The landlord has to prove with detailed, dated picture evidence before and after to make any claim.

My dad who is a landlord had the opposite problem where his tenant had trashed the place causing £1000’s of pounds worth of damage but because detailed, dated and signed photographs had not been taken prior to the tenant moving in she got to keep all of her deposit. The deposit protection scheme definitely favours tenants.

I’m a LL <awaits flaming>

If you have been in the property for 3 years they cannot charge for carpets or painting.

If it was professionally cleaned for you, then you do need to clean it to the same standards. Usually an oven cleaning company ( assuming built in oven) and window cleaner is sufficient if you’ve cleaned everything else yourself.

The deposit scheme rarely if ever award any funds to a LL. It is all on the side of the tenant.

After 3years I would be expecting to redecorate, re carpet and deep clean before the new tenant. Replace anything worn out or damaged etc. These costs are totally mine.

Your LL hasn’t got a leg to stand on.

I’ve both a landlord and tenant recently.
Based off what you’ve written the DPS will find in your favour and return your whole deposit.
The DPS is, probably correctly, very weighted in the tenants favour.

Landlords mainly try things like this because they know a lot of people can’t wait to get some of their deposit back so will settle for quicker access to it.

@DobbyTheHouseElk Re-carpet after three years?
Either you're putting down the cheapest, thinnest carpet you can buy or the tenants are trashing them. Re-carpeting after three years seems ridiculous, so long as you put down decent carpets initially, not least for environmental reasons.

Don’t pay for the clean! Honestly fuck that.

@CallmePaul
"LL can hold it, I do, costs a small fee with a TDS provider"

Nope. If it's an AST you have to put in into a TDS. If your tenant applies to the court they can charge you up to 3 times the amount of the deposit.

That's incorrect, you have to go via a TDS legally of course & it's more hoops, but I have the deposit

Can't seem to edit my previous reply, it's the DPS insured scheme I used. £27

Stick by your guns, some landlords take the piss, I know by experience. My last rental was spotless when we left. We repainted some of the walls and I spent HOURS cleaning the oven, it was spotless. The estate agent looked round and said it didn’t look like it had been lived in, and yet the landlady (lady of the manor, tight-fisted and owned nearly all the properties in the village) said she had to pay a professional oven cleaner to clean it - bollocks. In the end we forfeited £100 of the deposit just to pacify her but I often wish we hadn’t out of principle. She was well known for this, the old sod would sometimes be found walking around our property ‘just checking’.

Yes, the only item I think you should be paying for is a deep clean.

My friend moved out of a property last year and it was in her contract that it had to be deep cleaned-but she organized her own cleaner and paid about £80 (small one-bedroom), I think.

@Magentaplasticglasses as a landlord I find this absolutely ridiculous!!! carpets are always fair wear and tear and do not last a lifetime. landlord should expect to replace them every 3 to 5 years. radiator covers are obviously just needing fixed on properly and in fact do not even need to be there at all. I would not bother about them. i dont charge for repainting or cleaning because they are all maintenance and vat free. I actually do not even take a deposit because I feel that it is too much to expect a new tenant to come up with a months rent in advance as well as a deposit which is normally equivalent to another months rent. not feasible or fair. fight this all the way and if necessary take this to the ombudsman regarding repayment of deposit.

Go straight to TDS. I'm a LL and it makes me furious that because there are scum LL's like this out there all LL get a bad name. A bit of dust should not warrant you paying for a deep clean either. Just make a copy of the EA report before you send it to TDS just in case it gets lost. You will win.

Back in the day, I had landlords successfully withhold my deposit for this kind of shit and less. Since the DPS, I have only had one landlord successfully make an unfair claim, which was only successful because we only lived there 6 months and she made out that the property was in better condition than it actually was when we moved in. (She was able to get a whole new carpet fitted at our expense.) What I'm saying is - the longer you have lived there, the better your case.

Landlords are forever using tenants' cash for betterment, whenever they can get away with it. YANBU and definitely push the dispute all the way to the end. It doesn't even take long, I don't think. (I own now and haven't used it in a while)

Good luck, OP!

They get trashed every time. But thanks for the assumption! Believe me i wish I didn’t have to replace the carpet every time.

Assuming your description here is genuine and accurate, and the carpets and walls aren’t badly damaged, just 3 years of wear, then yes they’re being unreasonable - but don’t panic, as TDS are brilliant and will sort this for you.

You should have got a deep clean done before you left though, that’s pretty standard and they shouldn’t be finding dust everywhere.

"sorry @Tomatina you sound like exactly the kind of tenant I don't want. "

Really? The kind of tenants who:

*Pay the rent on time, in full, for years, no exceptions.
*Are considerate to neighbours, never play loud music or make any kind of disturbance.
*Keep the property clean and tidy, including outside areas.
*Pay for minor repairs ourselves rather than bother the landlord every time.
*Improve the property by replacing window blinds and redecorating front room (work carried out by professionals and paid for by us, colour scheme same as original).

Those kind of tenants.

I accept that there a minority of tenants exist who do cause structural damage and sometimes even trash the property and live in squalor. But this is a minority, as you must know.

What really infuriates me is the way landlords and their agents treat responsible, conscientious tenants as if they were the bad sort, and then try to squeeze every last penny out of them when they leave by inventing petty 'damage' (ie normal wear and tear) in order to keep the tenants' deposits.

When a tenant is living in a property, it is their home, and you cannot expect a house or flat to look like a show-home after years of normal family life.

As for deep cleaning - I know a couple of people who got their houses deep cleaned at the end of the tenancy, and guess what? The landlord/agent still rooted around and found tiny bits of 'damage' (such as a tiny scratch on a skirting board) and attempted to keep their deposits (without success). So the deep clean is pointless. Also any responsible landlord hoping to rent again will always get the property professionally cleaned after a tenancy, so expecting the tenant to do it just means the job is done twice. As I said, the tenant's responsibility is simply to leave the place clean, tidy, in reasonable repair, empty of possessions and with no structural damage. Expecting the property to look exactly the same as when they moved in is ridiculous.