For disputing my ex landlords claim on our deposit?

[Magentaplasticglasses]

Sorry for the long post, I don't want to drip feed.

We moved out of a rental property last month. The landlords want to take our entire deposit. They are claiming they need our entire deposit because they apparently need to:

• re-carpet all rooms: There were no marks on the bedroom or living room carpets, it just looks like they've been walked on regularly which they obviously have. The spare room was just used as storage for toys, board games and memory boxes because the flat had limited cupboard space. The room was unused on a day to day basis so there isn't even general wear and tear in there. The end of tenancy inspection confirms there are no marks on any carpets, just dust on the skirting boards and in the corners of the rooms, and a bit of mildew on the window due to age of the property and the living room windows being closed for a week (we moved to the other end of the country, so the property was empty for a week)

• replace all the radiators: The landlord has decided the grills on the top of the radiators are loose, and has claimed we have damaged them. Other than turn the thermostat on and off, and adjust the radiator knob to change the temperature of the radiator, we haven't done anything to the radiators. We didn't dry laundry on them, as per our contract, and we've never noticed any issues with them. They've always worked normally and looked fine. The end of tenancy inspection was incredibly thorough to the point of downgrading one room because there was a single cobweb. They also didn't pick up any issues in their checks of the radiators, and only mentioned "a small amount of dust" on the tops of them.

• Repaint the entire flat, including the ceilings: The walls are magnolia, so show everything. DH also has a significant physical disability and needs to put his hands on the walls to balance when he walks, which also means things wear more quickly. The landlords previously denied permission to put rails on areas where DH is prone to losing his balance, so using the wall was unavoidable.

I checked the tenancy deposit scheme, and any reported marks or scuffs on the wall, meet their criteria of wear and tear. The end of tenancy report has also graded the paintwork as "normal wear and tear". We don't smoke or vape, and we've not altered the ceilings in any way. They were also graded as white and unmarked by the estate agent, so again, they haven't picked up any issues. The landlord has declined the estate agents request for clarification about why they need to deduct the cost of painting the ceilings from our deposit.

After all of this, I emailed the estate agent, and said we will be disputing the claims about needing the whole deposit to refit and redecorate the flat, as it's clear it is normal wear and tear, and the landlord cannot charge for this. I said that ultimately the burden of proof and any costs associated with that lies with the landlord, so if he feels it is more than wear and tear, he needs to prove it.

I was very clear that we will not be consenting to any of our deposit being released to the landlord until he has provided proof that any changes to the flat are more than normal wear and tear. I also said that we are willing to pay for an end of tenancy deep clean, because the inspection reported dust and minor mildew on the window due to the property being empty. However, I expressed that DH and I would like at least 3 quotes to show the cleaners charges are in line with local prices, and that we will require a receipt to confirm the final cost of the clean, because we do not feel the landlords are acting fairly or honestly regarding the deposit.

The landlord has responded to the estate agent saying he disagrees with our dispute, he will not be sending quotes, he will not compromise on the deposit, and that he is not willing to seek further evidence that the changes to the flat are beyond normal wear and tear because he feels we are being unreasonable in our requests.

AIBU?

P.s. I'm sorry for the length of this. It became a bit of a vent post and was incredibly cathartic to write out.

I had a LL steal claim my entire deposit once. He sent us an itemised list of all the stuff he had supposedly had to replace/do in the house (replace carpets/cleaning/repainting etc) and it very conveniently came to the exact amount of the deposit.

We asked him to provide receipts of said work/stuff to prove that he indeed had replaced and done all this, he refused. The Deposit service then said they would look into it and get back to me. I never heard back. I actually went to the house while it was still unoccupied and looked around from the outside and he hadn't done any repainting or any of the stuff he claimed.

After a few months I called them to ask what was going on and got told that they had awarded him all the money! When I questioned why they said he had put in a 'solo claim' - basically a loophole that allows the LL to claim for damages and get the deposit if a tenant has disappeared or is otherwise uncontactable. They have to send a letter that informs the tenant of their intention to do this so they have a way to dispute it and if no reply within 2 weeks they get the money.

Except he sent this letter of notification to HIS OWN HOUSE! The house we had just moved out of, where he knew we didn't live anymore! He definitely had our new address, where we actually lived, because he sent our 'itemised bill' to that address! He had our phone number and all our contact details, as did the agent we went through, but he intentionally sent it somewhere he knew we would never receive it and therefore couldn't dispute it.

Not only that but, we were receiving top up Housing Benefit while we lived there, and he tried to claim 2 weeks worth of Housing Benefit from the council AFTER we had moved out because apparently that's how long it took him to get a new tenant and he wanted the missed rent. This was also AFTER he served us with a section 21 to leave! Naturally the council told him to fuck off.

Absolute dickhead. Makes me so angry to think about it even all these years later, I know I should have been more proactive about chasing it but I was waiting to them to contact me (as I was told to do) and at the time I had a 1yr old, a brand new baby, and was working full time so I was exhausted and not thinking clearly. By the time I found out it was too late.

Good luck OP, hope you get it all back. Everything you've listed sounds like normal wear and tear, especially if you've been there a while.

How long had you lived there and were the carpets new when you moved in? Carpets in a rental have a 5 year life.

Just lodge a refusal with your deposit scheme. I think carpets are supposed to be changed at least every 7 years, redecorating is ‘fair wear and tear’ but far more useful is the agent’s photos. I’m pretty sure the deposit scheme tend to side with the tenant, you should be ok if you say what you said here and have photos.

We’ve had to go through the dispute resolution service twice and both times got our full deposit back minus what we’d agreed in the first place; I think landlords just do it to try their luck and they drag their heels in the hope that you agree to more to get some of the deposit back.
Both times I used the inventory from the beginning and check out to compare how we got it and how we left it and asked for quotes for anything that we needed to pay for.

We have been here 9 years. Previous tenants 6. Same carpets here.

I just reassured him that I budgeted for the deposit 3 years ago, so it won't affect us negatively if it's sat in the protection scheme while we sort this out.

oh well said OP!

We lived there 3 years. The carpets and walls were in decent condition when we moved in, but not freshly painted. Everything was marked 4 out of 4 when we moved in, and in terms of decoration and wear and tear, the check out inspection graded us a mixture of 3's and 4's, so there is no way it's more than wear amd tear. Cleaning wise most rooms got a 2. But I've taken it with a pinch of salt if I'm honest because the hall got downgraded a point for a singular cobweb.

I'm so glad you got your money back and so glad that you found the process easy!

The landlord really doesn't have a leg to stand on. We got a copy of the tenant checkout recommendations and the landlord recommendations. Ours just said a deep clean, and the landlords was basically recommendations to fix various bits of wear and tear. They can go to the TDS, but we now have solid evidence that the inspector has said it's wear and tear

Jesus Christ. I don't even know what to say, except that's absolutely disgusting!
I totally understand why you didn't chase though. I probably wouldn't have been more proactive if I had as much going on. I hope you're in a better position now, with less on your plate.

The agent claimed an end of tenancy clean with the cleaner they use will be £600-£800 (for a small 2 bed flat with a box room). When I asked to know who they use so I can see the prices, because all quotes I got were between £150 and £250, he said they're not obligated to disclose the details of the services they use. I've just said that I'm happy to pay for a cleaner, but if they want to use their cleaner then they can either provide a quote, or disclose who they use so I can get a quote.

@Magentaplasticglasses so you can submit your own quotes to the Deposit Protection Scheme and say you'll agree to a deduction of that amount for an appropriate end of tenancy clean. The landlord doesn't have to tell you who they use or give you yourself any information but they do have to justify their claims to the DPS if you dispute it.

Landlord is being hugely unreasonable. We had similar where a LL blatantly wanted betterment and tried to keep our almost £6k deposit

TDA awarded them £250 (I would have actually negotiated more as there were a couple of things I thought would be reasonable but couldn’t negotiate properly with them as they were deluded). It did take months though do be prepared to wait.

Our old lovely landlord did the same... exactly the same. Wonder if they same or related? Got full back from tds... apart from repainting scuff damage to one wall. You will be right. You should win no problem. The scheme was put in to stop landlords ripping people off. They are a different breed if human and play on tenants being afraid to stand up for themselves.

We had the same problem, many years ago, and went through the Small Claims Court. The agents paid up immediately. The house we were renting was very run down, curtains in shreds, carpets thin and worn, and that wasn't our fault - it was years of neglect.

Thank you for letting me know this. I'll do that. I'm glad they have to justify claims. It wonder how they'll justify claiming for painting ceilings when the check out inspection flagged up nothing but a cobweb 🤔

I'm more than happy to wait. Our landlord is also absolutely deluded. We said we are happy to accept fair deductions, as long as they provided an itemised bill. Apparently that's unreasonable. But when this goes to the TDS they're going to ask the same thing to justify costs so I don't get why they want to drag it out

I would stop engaging and stop offering to pay anything.

He's trying to steal from you.

The deposit protection people can decide what is reasonable. It's likely you'll get your full deposit back or a small amount for cleaning taken depending on the condition compared to when you moved in.

The entire reason the agents want you to reach an agreement is because they know full well the deposit protection people are going to give you every penny back.

You can't reason with someone like him. Just raise the dispute. The default is that it's going back to you and he needs to prove why it shouldn't.

He's playing stupid games and he's going to win stupid prizes.

Our landlords tried to take our entire deposit plus an extra 5k they said was for extreme damage. The pictures looked bad-- but because one of the reasons we moved out was they ignored crumbling ceilings, black mould, damp and falling apart kitchen! We had proof of all the twice yearly inspections us flagging these issues plus emails with all the complaints we had made to the estate agent. They were awards £300 out of the 9k they wanted. We were thorough with our proof and the estate agents did the bare minimum just said what the landlord wanted without proof or justification beyond pictures. The process online with the protection scheme was super easy and it took a few months but we obviously thought it was fairly done!

Also they can pay what they want for whatever services but the scheme said that for one they thought the quotes were excessive and awarded them much less despite them apparently already being out of pocket.

They don't want to give you an itemised bill or quotes because what they want to do is charge you £800 for a professional clean, then spend 30 minutes themselves with a damp cloth dealing with the dust amd cobwebs so that's £800 pure profit. This isn't your problem though. The DPS system exists to protect you from this kind of thing and I am honestly surprised they are still trying it on. I guess they make a bit from naive tenants who don't stand up for themselves.

Ultimately it’s not up to you to decide to release your deposit. Ask for it to be checked again. It sounds like your landlord is being unreasonable. However cobwebs being noted is standard and will require cleaning so will be taken from the deposit as a landlord cannot rent it out to new tenants with cobwebs present…that’s just basic cleaning on your part. Wear and tear is expected and the amount allowed under the scheme increases with the length of time you live in a property. If there are hand marks and wear to the paint it will need to be repainted before it can be let again, so I’d expect a landlord to bring that up.

Its very rare for a landlord to be able to retain an entire deposit, it will fall in your favour, but don’t expect to get the entire deposit back.

Some landlords are amazing, ours were, when we rented. But it's landlords like yours that give them a bad name. Good luck with everything

I don't think the OP should go cap in hand to the agents, if that is what you are suggesting. Sorry if I got you wrong.

The usual procedure is to go to the website of the deposit agency and claim it back. Then they will go and see what the landlord is claiming and ask for evidence from both sides. They are usually very fair. Did you (OP) take any pictures when you left to show it was left in a satisfactory state? Etc. There will be a time limit for doing this so I would crack on, and not waste time in going back and forth with the landlord, who is clearly unreasonable, and the agents, who are on the side of the landlord, HE is their client

In our case the twat of a landlord tried to claim money for cleaning, we had paid already for a professional clean (we submitted the invoice from the cleaning company), and we also submitted the agency's own check in report from the beginning of our tenancy. A comparison with the check out report showed that we'd definitely left it cleaner than we found it when we moved in! He was not awarded any extra money for cleaning.

The whole house was shabby and badly maintained, yet he also tried to claim money for redecorating. The deposit company pointed out that decoration in a rental property is only expected to last a limited number of years, which the tenancy had gone beyond anyway. We didn't do anything to it anyway.

There was one area, a crack in an upstairs window, where we had conceded and let him have the money although neither of us were aware of any incident happening, but I thought 'well we can't prove we didn't cause it'. In hindsight I wish we had challenged this too.

You don't get any brownie points for trying to be fair and nice. A lot of landlords play dirty, and this one was dreadful. The boiler was constantly going wrong during our stay, and all the plumbers hated him too as he was reluctant to pay their bills.

Does this mean LL has done all the work prior to new tenants moving in as it’s clearly uninhabitable? Or have new people just moved in?

I'm sure most LLs are reasonable people and wouldn't try it on but my dc have had their fair share of shady LLs. Dd2 was working and sharing with a girl friend. The girlfriend was a total clean freak and the place was spotless, they both did a thorough job before they left but the LL withheld £200 because they found some dust on a skirting board. They were going to fight it but decided it was too stressful and accepted the loss.

reading this I’m amazed that my sons landlord was so nice and fair
She sent my son a list of things that would be checked
and even included the names and brand of paint that was used on the doors and walls if we were going to
do any touching up
even had what lightbulb they had used 😂

we cleaned it over a few days as we had plenty of time as my son had moved out in his house that he bought

she did a pre check out and noted a few things that needs to be done
we did that and my son got back all of his deposit of nearly 2k

she actually said it was one of the cleanest flats she had seen on a check out and that it was better than professional cleaners 😂 might get a new job