To think that this really can't be true about young people's thoughts about Israel?

[Another2Cats]

So, I just read an article where they say they have done a poll of young people and, of those under 25, 54% said that they agree with the statement "the state of Israel should not exist". Just 21% disagreed.

Did the polling company manage to just randomly pick a bunch of people that feel this way, or is this genuinely how many young people feel?

IABU to think that this can't really be true? (I am quite prepared to accept that IABU and that this really is what a majority of young people believe)

The link is here:

https://unherd.com/newsroom/majority-of-young-britons-think-israel-should-not-exist/

and this is the text of the article:

A majority of Britain’s young people do not believe Israel should exist, a new UnHerd poll has revealed.

A preliminary finding of an exclusive survey of 1,012 voters about foreign policy, conducted by Focaldata and due to be released tomorrow on UnHerd, found that a striking 54% of 18-24-year-olds agreed with the statement that “the state of Israel should not exist.” Just 21% disagreed.

This finding dovetails with other UnHerd polling on the same issue. In a separate question, young respondents were asked who was more to blame for the war in Gaza. Half blamed the Israeli government, while a quarter answered Hamas. Only 19% responded “all equally”.

The war’s high degree of exposure online and on social media appears to have fuelled interest among Britain’s young. An AI-generated “all eyes on Rafah” graphic was shared more than 44 million times on Instagram recently, with pro-Palestine content also proliferating on TikTok. Critics have argued that the Chinese social media platform has deliberately promoted anti-Israel content, which TikTok has denied, citing the existing attitudes of its young user base.

These attitudes are reflected in further UnHerd polling, which asked young Britons about their level of interest in wars around the world. It found that Britons aged 18-24 are far more interested in the war in Gaza than they are in the Russia-Ukraine conflict or in US-China tensions. Among this group, 38% were very interested in Gaza and 28% were somewhat interested, compared with 19% and 44% who were very or somewhat interested in the war in Ukraine, respectively.

As the Israeli war enters its eighth month, public opinion has slowly shifted in Palestine’s favour. Historic polling shows that popular support for Israel was at its highest shortly after the 7 October attacks at 21%, but this figure has since fallen. Although young people were most sceptical of Israel before the attack, the overall level of support for the Jewish state over the same time frame has plummeted to 16%, according to YouGov figures.

As of this week, a new ceasefire proposal is on the table, and the US is pushing Israel to accept it. The deal would involve the exchange of prisoners for hostages and would pave the way for negotiations. A ceasefire has strong majority support in the UK.

@milkwonder you seem confused as to whether it is all Israelis you are shipping off to the the US, or merely the Jewish ones.

No, they don't just want any land to call home. They want their land to call home. The whole point of Zionism is a home in Zion.

Which Israelis were ousted because no one wanted them? Do you mean Jews? It really doesn't sound like you mean "our fellow Israelis" by your description. And it sounds like you're not overly bothered about no one wanting them. You really don't come across very well at all, to be honest.

Your argument, and I'm being very, very generous referring to it as such, can be equally used the other way around. "the British and Americans and the European countries that created this need to give up land to allow them to build" a Palestinian state. Surely they owe them that much? "That's the least they deserve.".

Hopefully you now realise just how fucked up everything you're saying is. No doubt you'll misconstrue my words and pretend that last paragraph is what I want to happen (it isn't) or think should happen (again, it isn't). I'm just trying to show you how incredibly ridiculous you're being.

Oh ok so as long as they're Jewish, they have no place in the Middle East? Even if they're Arab? But it's Israel you have a problem with, not Jews, right? From what you said, you're not racist towards Jews based on the colour of the skin, just by the religion they were born into because Jews are unacceptable regardless of colour?

And yes, there is a distinction between Jews and Israelis. It's just a shame you haven't figured out what the distinction is yet.

This thread is a fucking binfire now.

Yeah, you know when you're so desperate that you just can't help but rape someone? You have no choice but to kill a child?

Do you actually support Hamas?

The question doesn't allow space to capture what a lot of people are identifying as a solution. I think a snapshot of a what to me is not a clear or helpful question is harmful and can be utilised to fit a malicious brief.

Ideally a clearer first question followed up with further questions to capture a more accurate reflection of the poll, would be preferable.

Yes, especially with the sneaking regardism towards terrorists by trying to use "Saint" Mandela to try claiming terrorism is a matter of opinion. Most of these posters have never had to deal with terrorism and divided societies in real life!

Then there's the antisemitism and comparisons to the Nazis which is, quite frankly, offensive and ridiculous.

We've also now established that the vast majority of young people in the UK are NOT taught about conflict in the Middle East and aren't well informed. That also meant some tried to take the entire thread to the battleground of history as well as stereotypes whilst displaying their ignorance over what IHL actually says.

I always say the point isn't to change the minds of those who post. That's futile.

"Palestinians welcoming them’. There were no Palestinians before 1964. A false construct by Yasser Arafat, an Egyptian himself. Jews were attacked and murdered by the ARAB population long before the State of Israel was created.

There was no ‘Palestinian’ land either. Jewish people are indigenous to the area."

There was Palestinian land, there were Palestinians. The Palestinian nationalist movement began just after the Zionist movement in the 19th Century. The area was called Palestine for centuries (from at least Roman times and the name has been around longer, the Ancient Greeks used it for the area too).

Palestinians are indigenous to the area and in fact are descended from the same population as the returning Jews.

Where are the defenders of Israel when this sort of spurious, racist nonsense is posted? Oh that's right, they let it slide.

Wonder why?

You can see this type of use of social media on here and on other platforms, there's a pro-Russian comment/anti-Ukranian on another thread that looks like it may be part of this type of propaganda. It's used to plant doubt and spread dis-information and it's been used previously with regard to Brexit to try and influence the outcome. Social media is powerful as propaganda.

Aside from this, nuance often seems to be lost now, there are atrocities on both sides. No one should forget the horrors of 7th October when discussing this subject, and we shouldn't forget Gaza today either.

Do you hop on and correct people when they make spurious racist comments about Jews or Israelis? Or do you let it slide?

There aren’t many posters who take a fair and balanced view, but there are some.

You're talking to someone who's had several comments deleted for being Antisemitic in nature.

Mumsnet certainly thought so.

@DownNative I am not saying that Hamas are not terrorists. I am saying that Western nations and their allies are as much terrorists as Hamas are, and just because they have not had it officially declared by (their own!!) institutions does not mean they are not. E.g Israel, US and the UK. Through them continually using the ‘Hamas are terrorists’ line they divert the blame from themselves for what they are doing and have done that can be classed as terrorism. If we only view Hamas as terrorists, our view of the conflict will become clouded. The fact that the US has an Act to invade The Hague if they ever take them to court says all you need to know…

Your view of the Provisional IRA proves you have no idea what was happening in Ireland at the time. They felt ‘terrorised’ by UK forces in their homeland, and responded with the IRA. Their militia seemed to be the only glimmer of hope for some people. Peaceful talks weren’t working. To this day, many Irish people have a negative view of Britain.

What on earth? Is this comment designed to be provocative? Why are you erasing Palestinians and their history entirely?

One can only hope some reflecting gets done around own prejudices and blind spots and the reasonableness of complaining about other people doing what we’re doing ourself.

It's a common tactic done not only on here but online to try and erase Palestinian history in an attempt to legitimise the current ethnic cleansing that Israel is carrying out.

There's so much wrong with this post, so I'll have to address certain things at some point today. Currently working.

Take a look at my username and then think about where that is. I've always been open on here that I'm a Catholic from Northern Ireland and so I know exactly what the Provos did to my people, Catholic and Protestant alike.

You, on the other hand, sound like you're not even from Northern Ireland.

I assure you PIRA never, ever had majority support from Catholics in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland! Indeed, they were illegal on both sides of the border and utterly rejected.

Don't try to tell me what you THINK the Provos were about. I'll tell you what they were about complete with various bits of supporting evidence.

My family and I have had to deal with the Provos in real life. Sit down!

You might learn something.

@DownNative I apologise for explaining to you. I didn’t mean to talk down on you. I suppose the IRA were endorsed by Protestant Irish people then? Did the Catholic people support the British or were they non-committal and wanted an end to the conflict? Once again, I apologise.

Er what? There was a place called Palestine back in biblical times up until the 1940s.

Maybe stop talking about NI @crispychickenwings.
Please!

If you cannot get the basics of the Troubles aka Operation Banner right, then why is it you think you can also talk about a far, far more complex and dangerous conflict in the Middle East Region?

It honestly baffles me.

My advice to you would be to sit this one out and listen to those who are well informed on terrorism, security and counter-terrorism.

Yes, I think that's a good idea as it can seriously derail the thread. Unfortunately, too many people bring that up thinking it's somehow relevant OR equivalent to the Middle East conflict.

On this occasion, I won't go into detail about NI as crispy has just shown they don't actually know what theyre talking about. 🤔