…In thinking that parents would welcome cheaper, less flashy private schools

[Newbutoldfather]

This is (obviously) occurred to me over VAT, but also in thinking that the cost of private schools has gone up way way beyond inflation.

The school I went to (ok, left 40 years ago) is now 12x what it cost when I went. (General inflation is 3.3x over same period for reference.

So, where has the money gone, given that they can’t make a profit? Not class sizes, which are actually, on average bigger, certainly pre sixth form. Not teachers’ salaries, which have failed to keep up with inflation. I think a lot is around the overall offering and a bloated, overpaid SLT structure. When I say the overall offering, I mean flashy facilities, wrap-around care, a myriad of available sports, a loss making 6th form offering subjects with only a few takers etc etc.

AIBU in thinking there would be massive demand for a ‘basic’ private school, which would maybe cost 1.5-2x a state school (minimum 3x where I live), have excellent academics and good pastoral care, but ‘ordinary’ facilities, a normal 6th form offering and good but limited sports. Or AIBU and most private school parents want expensive facilities and a huge choice of A levels, wrap around care and co-curricular and have no issues with how much it costs?

Wrap around care was why we went private in the first place so that’s definitely important to me.
i tend to agree with you though!

Private schools are ridiculously expensive in this country. In France they have private schools that cost around £1000 for the entire year, which offer good facilities and a good choice of extra-curricular activities, and have excellent academic results. It definitely can be done.

Different people want different things, in our area there’s a huge range in how much the private schools cost. A couple of the private schools seem very similar to the kind of good state schools you get in affluent suburbs, it’s just that here you pay the fees rather than buy into a catchment.

So few of the parents in these catchment areas realise how lucky they are. So few of them realise how bad a local state school can be.

No. The excellent sports facilities, wide range of co curricular activities and wrap around care (amongst other things) are why we chose private education.

Lots of state schools have excellent educational outcomes, good pastoral care and a normal sixth form so I wouldn’t pay for something already on offer.

There is basic private schools. It’s a whole range.

Yeah right

1 teacher at 30k a year salary allow 30k for everything else ( teacher pension to heating bill) divide by 30 kids and that's 2k a child

So France must be subsidised somehow

@Theweepywillow ,

If there are, they are few and far between, and not in all areas.

The graph of private school inflation vs cpi proves it.

A Ryanair private school!

Could parents pay for add ons if they could afford it?

Seriously though surely there is already a price difference. Parents aren't paying the same for hill house in Doncaster as they are for Eton?

I agree OP. There is a huge gulf between most private and state schools in this country. In some other countries private schools are much cheaper, often receive generous state support, and there is often much less of a social divide. Often parents choose them because they specialise in particular subjects (academic, sporting, artistic or vocational), offer a particular religious education or educational philosophy, tuition in a second language, etc. There isn't this horrible politics of exclusion and envy caused by the sky high fees, just varied educational provision and an understanding that one size doesn't fit all.

I'm just telling it how it is. Didn't say I had the formula for how it works.

That can't be true - do the sums, it's not economically viable unless it has external finance.

I have a very expensive private school near me. It's beautiful, the buildings are superb and sporting facilities are outstanding. The sports complex and pool are available for locals to use (and pay for) at the weekend. I would never be able to send my kids there but the school really enhances the local town, I would hate to see it close.

It certainly is true. My son is enrolled to start in one of these schools in September. I don't claim to know how they organise all their finances, I'm just saying that parents only pay around £1000 for the entire academic year.

People want the things they want to buy to be less expensive. Always.

But if what they want is wrap-around care for younger DC, a large range of subject options (from which you can choose any option) and a good range of sports, good drama, lots of music, proper labs and not working in more than pairs, oodles of art and DT materials etc, then that's not going to fit the basic model even if the buildings are less flash.

And what would the basic models USP be other than less expense? Smaller class sizes cost money. A lot of the school's budget is taken up with staff costs (much more than facilities costs), so if you make your cuts from that in the name of affordability plus exit TPS, what remains?

@AnotherNewt ,

A lot of that isn’t true.

Most private school’s 6th forms are loss leaders as they want to provide bespoke options rather than ‘subject blocks’ which means more teachers are needed. Teacher costs include SLT which has expanded in recent years to include people like ‘Director of Creativity’, ‘Director of Wellbeing’ etc etc.

And, at least in secondary, you don’t really get ‘small’ class sizes. The standard model is about 24, vs 30 in state.

The USP would be an affordable school with excellent academics and no disruptive behaviour, a lot of the reasons people claim to choose private.

That’s really not true in most independent schools. The teacher’s salaries will usually make up the majority of the expenditure. Then there’s upkeep and many schools are still recovering from fee reductions given during covid. Those still in the Teachers’ Pension scheme also faced an increase in employer contributions to 28%. 20k is the cost of most independent schools now - non-boarding. It’s not realistically possible to do it fior much less.

I understand you. We are in a different European country and some private schools here are often sort of €2000 ish a year.

Even though they are private they aren't in any way comparable to Uk private schools. They definitely don't have better facilities or teaching than state schools, but they are usually smaller schools, with more flexibility in general, often are better at guaranteeing continuation in terms of SEN students throughout their time at the school and feel more homely that a random state school.
I didn't choose to send my kids, but I see the appeal for certain families.

The French private school structure is completely different to the UK; there are two main types.

A "sous contrat d’association" private school has a contract with the government, must teach their equivalent of the National curriculum, and is subsidised to do so by the Govt. so yes it's technically a private school, sometimes with smaller classes (though often not) and better facilities, but generally wont offer anything like the facilities a UK private school, even a relatively affordable one, would. It will also be often be catholic though can't select on faith. Cost to parents would often only be 1-2k. It's basically a state school with a small top up from parents.

A hors contrat or école libre private school is one without a contract with the government, much more akin to our private schools as it is free to set its own curriculum, but gets no subsidies and thus is much more expensive, on a par with UK private schools.

Exactly- it must be subsidised in some way. Otherwise a school with 200 pupils is only generating an income of 200k - impossible!

There are French fully private schools for Eur 10,000. They are quite basic but excellent academically.

Yanbu.

Near me there are several prep schools. All have large expensive indoor swimming pools, huge sports pitches, the largest one has a small theatre. For primary aged children. There is masses of glossy equipment and buildings etc constantly refurbed.

They have typically about 15 per class but will have a teacher and two TAs. There are lots of extra none academic staff - a 3 strong marketing team & various other ancillary management.

All are very expensive. You could offer a much more no frills offering for easily half the fees.

IGS Durham has fees of £3900 a year. It does advertise itself as a no frills school.

That’s really not true in most independent schools. The teacher’s salaries will usually make up the majority of the expenditure. Then there’s upkeep and many schools are still recovering from fee reductions given during covid. Those still in the Teachers’ Pension scheme also faced an increase in employer contributions to 28%. 20k is the cost of most independent schools now - non-boarding. It’s not realistically possible to do it fior much less.

State schools have the same salary costs and increased contributions to TPS. They manage to operate on only about £3k per pupil, even in the most expensive areas and despite often having old/expensive buildings to run, higher levels of SEN cost etc. It is absolutely possible to run a private school on far less than £20k pa per pupil.

@3peassuit ,

A term or a year? State schools cost between £7k and 8k per annum (to the government) so I don’t think less than that is possible.