…In thinking that parents would welcome cheaper, less flashy private schools

[Newbutoldfather]

This is (obviously) occurred to me over VAT, but also in thinking that the cost of private schools has gone up way way beyond inflation.

The school I went to (ok, left 40 years ago) is now 12x what it cost when I went. (General inflation is 3.3x over same period for reference.

So, where has the money gone, given that they can’t make a profit? Not class sizes, which are actually, on average bigger, certainly pre sixth form. Not teachers’ salaries, which have failed to keep up with inflation. I think a lot is around the overall offering and a bloated, overpaid SLT structure. When I say the overall offering, I mean flashy facilities, wrap-around care, a myriad of available sports, a loss making 6th form offering subjects with only a few takers etc etc.

AIBU in thinking there would be massive demand for a ‘basic’ private school, which would maybe cost 1.5-2x a state school (minimum 3x where I live), have excellent academics and good pastoral care, but ‘ordinary’ facilities, a normal 6th form offering and good but limited sports. Or AIBU and most private school parents want expensive facilities and a huge choice of A levels, wrap around care and co-curricular and have no issues with how much it costs?

I think parents should be able to take the money the government would have paid for a state school place and credit it against a private school, so the parents just pay the difference. This would make private school more accessible to middle earners like teachers, nurses etc, rather than private education being limited to the pretty wealthy. I know this still creates an inequality as not everyone could afford the top up, but it at least opens it up to a broader group

This concept is used in some aspects of healthcare, such as wheelchair provision, and gives more choice at no extra cost to the government.

It’s creaming off those that can pay even a lower amount and are committed to education and shutting those schools that off to those that can’t. That’s what’s being suggested. I can see the appeal especially as I was a hard working pupil in a rough ish comp myself and got stick for it - but it stinks.

I think that many private schools try to outdo each other to attract prospective parents with 'fancy' facilities.

Yes. I’d prefer my DC to be in a school where kids are respectable and well behaved, and want to learn and are supported by engaged parents. I want them kept away from kids who are disruptive, have a bad upbringing, whose families are involved in crime or drugs, who are likely to be bullies and a bad influence, and who will probably end up in jail.

I don’t see why that’s a bad thing? As an adult I don’t socialise with druggies, long term unemployed, or people who have violent or criminal tendencies, so I don’t see why my DC should have to. Why would I expose them to that if I had an alternative option?

I was a decent middle class kid and I was sent to comprehensive school with the scum of the earth, and it scarred me for life. I don’t want that for my DC. If that makes me a bad person then so be it.

A voucher based system like you describe is used in low off European countries.

Ironically putting VAT on school fees is only possible due to Brexit. I wonder if the leftists in favour of this policy are prepared to admit it's a Brexit benefit.

Average funding for state schools is £7460 per pupil this year, so presumably a private school would struggle to be able to undercut that, even running with class sizes the same as in the state sector.

You're right, though - bringing down the costs of private education would probably make (some) state schools even more likely to be "sink schools".

In fact, what you describe is not so very different from having some state schools with engaged non-disruptive intakes and catchments that cost parents several thousand extra to live in.

I agree totally but I think it's time we stopped the wealthy gaming the system with grammars paid for by the state. They should pay for their selective schooling if they want it so much. Just put it back in the pot.

I didn’t actually pay money until yr 1 for my dc. Reception we paid for her school fees in childcare vouchers (you used to be able to take £240 of your salary a parent tax free) plus she got the nursery funding as she was under official school starting age.
Current fees for the school are £8500 a year so if parents got £7460 state voucher then only topping up £1000 would be very attractive. We saved more than that not needing wrap around as it had a longer day and on being able to holiday outside state school hols.
My colleague has children there now (moved from state)and is amazed at difference eg small class size. Yet it’s only costing a £1000 a year more than state provision.

State schools could be as good as private ones if it they had the same exclusionary options.

Absolutely agree with you, but legally all children are entitled to receive an education, so state schools will say its just pushing the problem from one school to another by excluding children.

As with many British things, it's a race to the bottom approach. Supportive parents apparently must be spread around all schools to make up for the ones who are not engaged. Just like well behaved children are sat with less well behaved ones in hope it will improve their behaviour, when often all it does is pull down/limit the better behaved child.

Our school isn't flashy at all. I went to school abroad and the school my children now go to is similar to that. It just offers what any good secondary school should offer.

Grammars showcase your point and are always in the top of the league table. All free to the wealthy.

They must be government subsidised. No way would a school run on fees of £1000 per year per student

@Escapaid

I'm just telling it how it is. Didn't say I had the formula for how it works.
But you said 'it can be done' for £1000 per year. Well sure it can. When it's subsidised by the government. So it really private school then is it

*not really private

I’ve also seen homeschoolers arguing that there should be the same allowance a school place costs to pay for tutors, exam fees, online high school etc.
I used to follow a few Americans who used a hybrid type school so part home education part school based. I could see that type of 3 day week provision being popular and rest at home to fit around hobbies or family commitments or for health reasons.

Not sure how the hybrid model works in reality, unless 2 children 'share' a place in school? Otherwise a child attending 3 days would be taking up a complete space, but would the school be getting only 60% of the funding, with the family getting the other 40% to pay for tutors etc? Interesting concept though, I don't think my child learns much on Fridays through a combination of being tired herself and I'm sure the teachers are pretty exhausted too. A 4 day week with fewer weeks school holidays (so same amount of teaching but spread over the year) would probably be really beneficial. Less burnout and sickness for staff and children and more efficient learning.

I am with you OP. I also left school around 35 years ago. My father was a "skilled" blue collar worker and my mother worked in admin part time. They sent me to private school. I'll have to check what they paid, but I seem to recall that it wasn't more than a month or so of his salary (maybe less) , which in today's money would be £3,000-£4,000 per year! All the girls in our school were the daughters of blue collar workers too ! The professional ones went to the slightly more expensive High School lol
I got a brilliant education but there were no bells and whistles. To be fair, it might have been better with a few more bells and whistles but it was affordable!!

This sounds like a wonderful school! You were so lucky to have that on your doorstep

@coupdetonnerre

Yes it's economically viable.

Yes, because it's government subsidised. Which is completely different from the UK. I can just imagine what private school haters on here would say about taxpayer money being given to parents to educate their dc privately

One was religious and one was a classical curriculum. The whole set up was 3 days in person school, then parents supervised the rest at home. But a set curriculum and all the social perks of school life. The parents seemed really involved with the schools.