Is this a toxic work situation?

[Lorettda]

I work in an insurance company where its quite client-focused and intense sometimes. My boss can be the loveliest boss ever to those who are loyal and hardworking. She buys thank you gifts, heaps praise, shows concern and really looks out for team members etc etc

However, it's a two sided coin and those who ever get on the wrong side of her or fall short of her high standards, know about it. Several people have been fired on her watch due to perceived incompetence or bad attitude (HR rep in tow so presumably done in line with law). By all accounts the people in question weren't great performers so it was justified but there always seems to be a build up then a showdown at the end followed by scathing glassdoor reviews from people who felt treated unfairly.

I'd always admired her no nonsense approach. We entered company at a similar time 10 years ago and while she rose and rose to the top, I had a more modest rise but still been doing well. She made me privy to some of the goings on and once told me she could 'finish' someone who'd dared to complain about her methods (she meant fire, not kill obviously). She now has a lot of hire and fire power.

Recently had some personal difficulties going on in the background and she's been sympathetic but after a few recent misunderstandings during remote working she unexpectedly proceeded to question my entire commitment to the company. It felt heavy handed and obviously over the years I've seen her do this before with others she's deemed not good enough and I'm shitting myself.

Her tone also becomes 'off' on Teams (were remote four days a week) and messages that are usually peppered with niceties become curt and short.

I'm worried I've somehow made it onto her blacklist. Have been wracking my brains for anything I've done that might be perceived in bad light and thinking of ways to demonstrate more 'loyalty', working several hours this weekend to get ahead.

I haven't done anything terrible that I can think of but I'm probably not quite meeting the very high standards right now perhaps. Although all work is getting done, no complaints, I just can't go super above and beyond in the way I could in past due to current personal circumstances (won't elaborate- too outing)

The whole thing feels like I'm in an abusive relationship sometimes tbh, feeling of dread, treading on eggshells, wondering if I said/ did wrong thing but then if she's her nice self again, it all melts away. Until it starts again. Then this ridiculous sense of needing to prove my worth/ loyalty to the company to win her over again and be thrown some praise.

I've also noticed a couple of other team members who seem to almost fawn over her.

Is this toxic?

Before anyone suggest HR, they're in cahoots with her and probs also fear her so that's pointless. It's either keep things sweet with her or leave. I'm looking into other opportunities in case but not so easy to just leave for various reasons.

IS there someone higher than her you can befriend?
Once i needed some flexibility for leaving early for a month and logging back home at home. was informally chatting with the MD as we both started many years ago and she shot up the ladder while I plod on, and she said great idea, so when i got to ask my line manager I could mention "[MD} said it was a great idea similar to what she did" so my manager said yes ...
Devious? probably
But i got the work done...

It sounds like the whole company is toxic and I would start job hunting if I were you.

Although you have been there for 10 years and never had any issues raised with your performance so you might want to pursue a case for constructive dismissal if she starts bullying you...

I work in a very similar environment.
Our boss goes as far to throw personal insults into the mix and i mean below the belt ones but everyone still stays litrally a low staff turnover.... won't speak a word just eyeball you up and down if she is that way out. I have only been here 18 months. I am awaiting the day the throws un called for shade at me and I'll tell her to shove her job up her vagina and walk

She's is a bully. It's that simple. :(

I worked for someone similar once. The whole team was on eggshells not knowing when/if they would get on the wrong side of him. It was brutal emotionally and really made me doubt myself and my abilities. The job itself was great but eventually I had had enough and resigned. At my leaving drinks someone who had known the boss for many years made a reference to him being bipolar, assuming I knew. I didn't. It put his behaviour in context and I realised it was him not me, which really helped my confidence moving on.

That was a toxic working environment and so is the OP's.

I think the change in her behaviour towards you is only going to get worse. You might be her next target. This is the best sign you have to leave, otherwise you might risk staying and getting forced out anyway, with no warning to get another job lined up.

I had a female manager very similar to this, who targeted young women and it was awful. It happened to me, she was supposed to be training me but was reporting higher up that I couldn’t do my job and that I wasn’t going to be able to do my role. She gave me so many mixed messages and no help throughout training me, I was massively set up to fail. She had a week off for annual leave and someone else supervised my work and said I was doing really well. It was so toxic, she constantly made negative comments about me to others, and to me.

I became so anxious and it was a really tough time for me. I left and found my anxiety was lifted immediately. I could never work in that environment again.

I also wonder about some of the other people forced out - if there are lots of people feeling they were unfairly dismissed there might be more to this.

Start looking for other jobs - I don’t think you’ll regret it.

can you take some sick leave or is there no HR support at all?

Sounds like a job I had early in my career. I managed to keep on the good list but to do so took so much effort. I feel ashamed that I stayed so long and didn't warn others earlier. I watched new starters being put on a pedestal and then it being chipped away before inevitably they were out the door. When I finally came to my senses and left I did tell HR why. I kept to the facts and put it in writing. Didn't do any good.

I've stayed in the industry and frequently come across other survivors. We now laugh and tell stories to new colleagues but at the time it was not at all funny.

Leave as soon as you can

Yep, she’s toxic and you know it. Jump before you’re pushed.

I worked at a large professional company with a partner (female) like this. Would be laughing and joking in the morning then come afternoon she’d be moody and shouting. She also got rid of people including one very clever new colleague who she just hated on sight. If you spoke to HR they made it clear they were sympathetic but on her side and you wouldn’t win. She was married with no DC, one of the few female partners in a male dominated profession and retired early at 50.

I lasted 18 months before I left and breathed a sigh of relief.

People like these are bullies but the worrying thing here OP is they can be nice and ok for a short period (like this woman was to me) but then if you annoy them (it wasn’t even anything I’d really done with her, more internal office politics) then they’ll make you pay. I’d look to leave long term.

As PP’s have said often it’s happening to others, in fact I found out from an ex colleague and now a friend that her boss in the same company did similar and people stuck it so it looked ok on a CV then just left. Re my boss she had her favourites and people who she kept out of the firing line.

You may not be unreasonable to say that this is a toxic work situation - your description does suggest a pattern of behaviour.

Where I do think you are unreasonable is that you have spent 10 years admiring this woman's 'no nonsense approach' but now feel it is toxic when applied to yourself.

You have also glossed fairly lightly over 'a few recent misunderstandings', giving an example of one miscommunication. Was this really the only issue that needed correction?

Where I do think you are unreasonable is that you have spent 10 years admiring this woman's 'no nonsense approach' but now feel it is toxic when applied to yourself

The system is never wrong till it comes after you

I think I would be tempted to ask her for feedback - is she happy with your performance, would she like you to do anything differently? And get very specific about targets you agree to meet. She will either have to say everything is fine or you will have details of areas she thinks you need to improve on but at least it will be open and on record

Poor, toxic managers blame staff in order to protect their own backs. They will have clear favourites who are usually yes people.

the change in behaviour means you are definitely on her shortlist. I’ve survived a few like this (all female once again). Definitely time to start looking elsewhere- usually a slippery slope once you are on it.

I could have written this myself!

Definitely get feedback from her, encourage her to be open and candid with you.

if you feel you have achieved what she expects from you, you will have nothing to fear. If there's anything that's festering, it's her chance to clear the air. Confirm the discussion in writing, especially if she gives you feedback on any improvements. Give her clear timelines by when you will address her concerns.

lastly, say that you'd like to encourage a culture of psychological safety, where the team are free to speak up if the have concerns because this builds team trust.

see how she reacts to you taking a proactive approach.

I think you are on the blacklist unfortunately.

It’s obviously a very toxic working environment.

Interestingly you had no issue with her or her behaviour until you now find yourself on the receiving end. I take it you never spoke up before about how she treats others when you could see that it was unfair? You have no idea what other issues these other employees were facing yet you seem to see yourself fit to judge that they weren’t great performers.

You sound like a hypocrite.

Ask her what her beef is with you 😉

It's that type of narcissistic sociopathy that is often confused for effectiveness in corporate management, you see it all the time. Best thing to do is get out of her way and if that means moving on then do it. Her superiors will be totally taken in by her.

She is totally focussed on herself and her own success. You are either a tool to be used to further that success or you are an obstacle to be got rid of. She wants hardworking and loyal staff who can make her look good to whoever has the power to improve her position. She will gun for anyone who she perceives as a threat to that (by either not being unswervingly loyal or not putting in their max at all times regardless of reason). She puts on a show of getting rid of these people because it is a public warning to those who are left not to cross her.

Deeply toxic and I suspect too embedded in that place for anyone beneath her to make any headway in getting this recognised. You would need to have a very smart and high quality senior leader put in above her to spot what she is doing and put a stop to it - a very rare occurrence.

Although not being able to do the super long hours and overachieving to the extent she expects, she still can’t have you fired unless you actually do something wrong! Breach of contract, malpractice, misconduct, unprofessionalism, all fine. But doing your job to the best of your ability no way.
Make sure you know your contract, the company guidelines/code of practice, professional standards inside out.
Any conflict over things SHE perceives not good enough, keep a record, including how she has acted and how you responded.
eg ‘14th July I was asked to work till 7pm, but my contracted hours are 9-5 and overtime is optional’.
Try to ignore and not rise to stuff like curt emails. It’s just childish and doesn’t actually mean anything in the grand scheme of things.
The previous issues- as long as they didn’t amount to any of the things mentioned above, you didn’t receive any warnings, no company procedure was followed to address the issues, then i dont think they can be used against you. If they were serious enough to be used cumulatively against you then they should have been properly and formally addressed at the time, otherwise they are nothing. They might be something in her head, but the in real world and legally they are not.
As someone else suggested, try to find an ally in senior management if you can.
Definitely be ready to seek support from a union rep if you have one.

So, you have both looked up to, and approved of the actions of this clearly awful woman for however many years... And now she's turned on you, too. You likely turned your head, or applauded as she was horrible to others, and now you're on the receiving end.

You won't be surprised to learn my sympathy level is barely off the ground 🤣

I had a boss like this, they weren't a bad person just very work focused and always seemed to need someone to criticise, luckily I wasn't ever that person but their behaviour concerned me. I honestly didn't realise how toxic my work environment was until I left. I had been trying to please them all the time to keep the peace. I think it's really difficult to be objective when your caught up in it but it sounds to me like a toxic situation you need to get out of.

One these narcissistic bullies target you there is no way back. I have been in this exact situation twice. The first time it happened, I put in a grievance and within a week I had been fired for gross misconduct. Eighteen years later I still have no idea what I did wrong. I did get compensation from the company to stop me taking them to a tribunal though.

When it happened in another job, I spent a year trying to get back onto her good side, while she sidelined me, took my responsibilities away, promoted my assistant to be my boss, put me down publicly. When I handed in my notice, she put me on garden leave and told my team I had been fired.

I'm sorry OP You need to get out!

Given you’re in FS then your company should have a whistleblowing procedure whereby you can report inappropriate behaviour annd remain anonymous and others will investigate behaviour. Maybe worth considering here.