To wonder what’s the point when I’m left with this after bills?

[ReLOa]

In a stressful job and single parent to nursery age child. I have 570 left after all bills and childcare and petrol, excluding food. What is the actual point in this?! We can’t do much at weekends and holidays are out of the question. I’m supposedly in a highly paid job (earn 70k) and I feel like giving up. Just been paid and looking ahead at the month I’ve already had to turn down some things like an adventure park day with friends as it was 28 pounds entry and a 35 mile round trip. I feel like I’m failing yet not sure what more I can possibly do?!

On 70k with no pension you’d surely pay back half (1% for each £200 earned over £60k up to 80k when you lose it all). £10k/£200 is 50%. It would be less if contributing to pension but I’m not sure where you’d get 80% from unless there was another change since the one to put the threshold up to 60k & taper off over 20k there than 10k that I totally missed?

Yes your correct my maths is very off lol 😆, they haven't changed the rules they should though, completely reversing the entire decision would be a better idea in the current climate.

It would be so much more sensible. The tiny number of people on truly huge salaries are inconsequential to the overall cost and pretty much anyone else with kids could genuinely use the money for at least the early, high cost childcare years

The single mum with four kids working a part time job as a TA would be subbed by the taxpayer to the tune of a well above average full time wage.

Getting the state to pay for your kids is the default position of at least half of all women in the UK and it is becoming unsustainable.

Of course she wouldn't. The benefits csp is set below average full time wage.

In fact, if you look it up, you'll see a single mother's maximum possible benefits (which most will not receive) in 2024 just covers the average 2 bed London rent, leaving nothing for food, bills, travel to work, or anything else.

You are absolutely not going to believe this, but I put in the details for a TA earning 18k (average salary according to Google) into entitled to, with 4 kids aged between 7 and 14, put in lower childcare cost than OP has (£900 per month) and a 200k mortgage (£900 per month over 30 year term at 3.5% interest). EntitledTo comes up with a benefit entitlement of £791/week (£613 UC, £101 mortgage support, £76 child benefit)

That's £41,132 annually

Then she also has her salary:
18k gross
5% pension £900
£905 income tax
£362 NI
Assume no student debt (not needed fora TA)
Net salary £15833

So the TA's total take home pay is £57k

Compared to OP's net take home pay of £44.7k

Please someone tell me that I've made a mistake on the numbers, since I absolutely can't believe that a young single mother who's managing against the odds to earn so well that the state deems her able to pay £17.3k into the tax system ends up taking home £10k per year less than a TA getting topped up on benefits.

What's the figures for a single Mum of one? As four children is completely different to one child. Oh, and you need to drop the salary by 20% for term time only (it's almost always presented as FTE) and then another 20% for the reduction to 30 hours instead of a full 36-37.5.

Your figures are incorrect. There wouldn't be any help with mortgage costs in this scenario. The support for mortgage interest via UC is a loan and is only available to people who have had no employment income, not even a single penny, for 9 consecutive months leading up to their application for it.

Also, assuming the mother is over 25 and her 4 children were all born before April 2017 and had no disabilities, her basic monthly UC award would be a total of £2491.77 before wage deductions. This is made up of the single element of £393.45 and 4 x £333.33 for the kids plus £765 childcare which is 85% of the £900 childcare costs.

Her wage deduction for a monthly net earned income of £1313.30 (which is what it would be with a monthly pension contribution of £75) would be £352.16. This would leave a UC award of £2139.61.

So that makes £3452.91. Plus child benefit of £305.80 every 4 weeks (obviously a 5 week month would be more) would make the total income £3758.71 monthly.

So £45,104 annually.

For a single mum of one using the same figures, the monthly benefit income would drop by around £1200 compared to a single mum of four.

Ah great, thanks for explaining that.

But it still leaves the TA with the same net income as the OP? £45k each annually?

That seems really, really wrong to me.

It's still inaccurate for the salary and the number of children. You can't compare the two situations.

Well OK - but then the TA is only working 30 hours per week term-time only.

Unlike OP who is working full time, all year round.

But OP earns a gross salary of £70k a year.

You shouldn't be comparing number of children. How can they have the same net income?

Because in your scenario, the mum of four is receiving just over £1200 a month more in benefit income because of those extra 3 children. Who she also has to clothe and feed and all the other associated costs of raising children.

If she also only had one child, take away that £1200 and the mother on UC earning £18k, ends up with far less monthly than the one earning £70k. It's around £2550 per month in total which after you take off £900 for the mortgage and £900 for childcare, doesn't leave very much at all.

How much extra would OP on her £70k salary get if she had 3 more children? She's a bit younger, so her kids would likely be born after the child benefit cap came in. So an extra £110 monthly? And her childcare is already £1500 a month, not £900.

(I put that lower £900 in for the TA to reflect after school care for older children)

It's not that bad especially as it's short term....she can save when she doesn't have to pay nursery fees

In the interests of fairness for the calculations, if you assumed the kids in both scenarios were the same ages (all born before April 2017), the mothers were both over 25 and the monthly childcare costs and pension contributions were the same (although I imagine the mother on 70k is probably paying more than £75 a month but for the sake of the maths here let's say it's the same), then if she had 3 more kids, the mother on 70k would actually be entitled to £540 ish UC per month. Then an additional £203 every 4 weeks of child benefit on top of the £105 or so it is for one child. I can't tell you how much child benefit she would actually end up getting because I'm not familiar with the rules surrounding higher earners and child benefit but that's the figures. Definitely would be entitled to £540 UC though.

She's got £150 after bills and petrol for her and a toddler not £120 for bills, petrol and food that's a big difference especially if your utilities are £50 a week or more like in many poorly insulated rental homes.

That's a lot of disposable income for many. I know it seems so unfair compared to what you earn though but many have a good life on that. Get creative. Have a food budget. Put £100 aside a month for holiday. Check out the national trust free days. Explore hikes walks reservoirs waterfalls and parks in your local are. Our disposable income is less than that and we manage two holidays a year. Look at air BnB etc months in advance and grab the steak with a view. It is possible

You can only get benefits for two children, surely, not four, so your calculations aren't correct? I'm too tired to add up, but if you've calculated four times the child element that can't be right, unless the TA in question was able to prove two of her children were conceived by rape. :(

If the OP with her 1 nursery age child drops to 2 days per week, so earning £28,000 pro rata, how much will she get in benefits?

How about 1 day at £14,000 Pro rata?

Sorry to ask rather than go through the calculator myself, but I don't know the rules and do keep making mistakes!

Given that she'd be paying less childcare, I wonder whether she'd actually be better off (and get to spend time with her child too!). Then ramp up days once her DC is at school.

Oh no, sorry, I misread it, I see now you calculated it as before April 2017!

You say you don't see the point but do you think you will be better on benefits?

Benefits won't cover your mortgage. I think you can get a loan for the interested on your mortgage but it's a loan not payments. You will have a house at the end of this and you would not if you were on benefits. You also have security which you don't get with rentals.

You won't have the money for loads of outings and nice food on benefits. You will have significantly less than you have now but you will have more time to fill with your child without spending money, increasing bills too as home more using utilities. And if you are not working your child only gets 15 hours of nursery so the bulk of their education fall to you- can you do right by them with very little disposable income and I'm assuming you are not trained in early years education like nursery is? Also is that the example you want to set your child?

As others have said it's temporary. Nursery fees don't last forever.

Go through your spending and see what can be reduced. Next time your phone is up for renewal don't get a new one get a cheep £10 a month contract. Same with the car if you have one on lease get the cheeper option next time. Do you buy lunches or take packed lunches? Coffee on the way to work? Multiple streaming services when you could manage with one? New clothes? Try second hand (I actually enjoy browsing eBay and charity shops). Expensive hair cuts can happen less often and expensive shampoos and makeup are luxuries. Meal planning. So much can be done to save money if you really need to. It's about priorities - think what else you spent £28 on this month that you could have lived without maybe next month don't buy that and choose the day out instead.

You must be considering a lot of what some of us would consider luxuries as essential. I'm a single mum on benefits and even with DLA for my disabled child and decent amount in maintenance from ex I would consider hair cuts and new clothes luxuries. And my child can't manage outings and days out so I don't spend a lot on those things. I promise you this life is no better. I'm judged by society for not working, I'm constantly poor. My kids don't get nice things. I'm not paying off my mortgage or into a pension and one day my child will be an adult and if he's able to be independent I will be expected to return to work with such a gap in CV and no up to date skills I will never gain employment that pays anything decent. I appreciate your life is hard right now during the nursery years paying for everything yourself but honestly not working is nothing to envy