To not give way on dual carriageway?

[Cheerstoyoutoo]

So I’m driving down the dual carriageway in the left lane and there’s a car waiting to turn into the lane I’m driving on although it’s not a slip road or anything, it’s just a straightforward juction so the car was stationary indicating left and waiting to turn. I continued to drive but I think they expected me to move over for them as I got the finger, flash, etc. I always move over where possible for cars merging via the slip roads but this wasn’t the set up here. The car is question turned after I and the car behind me passed so it’s not like they were even waiting very long. I’m a really nervous driver following a collision some months ago so I tend to avoid changing lanes unnecessarily but it got me wondering should I have moved in this scenario? Thanks.

I always move over where possible. It worries me that people are on the road who feel uncomfortable to simply move over in a lane.

I hate it ( in the different scenario to yours) when driver don't get over on the motorway to let you in off the slip roads, they really shouldn't be driving on a motorway if they can't change lanes, they are a hazard.

That was my thinking. I just didn’t know people expected it… abit entitled really. I care more about being safe than being nice.

@Cheerstoyoutoo with all due respect, if you feel that you are unsafe changing lanes on a dual carriageway then you need more lessons. It's really as simple as mirror, signal, manoeuvre and go. I always check mirrors, signal, have a quick peek over shoulder and go. If you do that it can't be unsafe as you'll know if there's something there.

I don't think you should beat yourself up. It took me ages to feel confident driving, especially on fast roads and with the dch in the car. I still only overtake if I've got loads of room. So an advanced course might give you confidence, but you're not doing anything wrong and people on MN can be a bit harsh on inexperienced drivers, IMO.

That was my thinking. I just didn’t know people expected it… abit entitled really. I care more about being safe than being nice.

But staying in lane isn't necessarily safer - sometimes people will just pull out and 'though they're in the wrong, being right isn't much comfort if you get hit.

The same with chugging along behind a tractor for miles - people behind you may get frustrated and attempt to pass both you and the tractor, making it a longer riskier manoeuvre. Again, that's their fault for impatience if it goes wrong, but it's still poor driving on your part due to feeling unable to drive decisively and take safe opportunities to pass.

You are not a safe driver. You should have moved over into the right hand lane, and the fact you didn't, instantly, without even thinking about it, shows how unsafe you are. Please take some extra lessons.

Confidence with driving comes by doing it - if you minimise the amount of times you move into the right lane on a dual carriageway then it will always be daunting.

As to should you have moved over - yes. Look at the situation if it was you trying to join the dual carriageway, which is always more difficult if there is not a slip lane, you would want someone to move over to allow you to easily join the road.

No the other driver should not have been rude, but moving over is the acceptable behaviour and most drivers would do it if it is clear to.

Harsh but I agree although would have worded it a bit kinder I do think courtesy to other road users is important provided you aren't holding anyone else up or making them slow down/change their course.

I always start checking my right mirror when I know I’m coming up to a slip road / junction that joins the DC. That way I know the likelihood of being able to move over should I need to. In the event it looks unlikely I will be able to move, then I know a few seconds in advance to slow down slightly if somebody is trying to join. If I can move, obviously I do further quick checks then make the manoeuvre. Anticipating and preparing, thinking several steps ahead, can help you to feel more on control. In your shoes I’d book advanced driving lessons to help you to feel more confident.

It's a normal junction, not a slip road. The traffic already on the road had the right of way and is under no obligation to move lanes, slow down or otherwise let him out. Like at any other junction, he should wait until it's clear unless someone chooses to let him out. Its not obligatory.

If people indicate I generally let them in if it’s safe to do so. They may not be local and have got in the wrong lane by mistake, something which I’ve done several times. I get annoyed with the ones who barge in front of me without indicating causing me to brake sharply

but surely that’s how accidents happen? Moving over without thinking about whether it’s safe or not? Mirror, indicate and move over. I make an assessment in-between checking my mirrors and indicating on whether or not it’s safe to change lanes. Or are you one of those people that just indicate and go regardless?

Joining from a normal junction onto a dual carriageway, where the speed can be 70mph, can be very dangerous as there is no slip road to gain speed. At 70mph type speeds, a gap to join the dual carriageway does not always appear. So the majority of other drivers will use common sense and move to the right hand lane, allowing the driver from the junction to join more safely.

I would have moved over & made room for the driver to pull out of the junction. Your driving was poor because you showed a lack of situational awareness & consideration for other road users. The other driver’s reaction was understandable, but unnecessarily rude.

but surely that’s how accidents happen? Moving over without thinking about whether it’s safe or not? Mirror, indicate and move over. I make an assessment in-between checking my mirrors and indicating on whether or not it’s safe to change lanes. Or are you one of those people that just indicate and go regardless?

They don't mean just indicate and go, they mean that coming up to the joining you'll be automatically looking in your right mirror so you can plan what to do (there would have been a sign almost certainly). Then if someone wants to join you do the mirror, signal, manoeuvre without much thought because you've already assessed the road. The more you do it the quicker the process is- even done safely.

I do the same when approaching slip roads but I didn’t think to do the same with junctions. I will definitely start doing this from now on. Thanks.

Reluctance to change lanes and not understanding that overtaking is sometimes a necessary manoeuvre is worrying. These things become easier with practice and experience on the road.

Agree with PP that you would benefit from more lessons for everyone’s safety.

the person who gave you the finger was a dick though.

Ah, ok I understand. I will start doing this.

All of this. People who avoid changing lane are clearly not great drivers. It's one of the signs!

Get a couple of extra lessons.

Pulling onto a dual carriageway from a junction is not easy. Not only do you need a gap in traffic, but a big enough gap to get up to 70mph from a standing start.

There’s one near me and if I see anyone waiting at that junction, I will always pull into the outside lane provided it’s clear. Mainly as it’s the considerate thing to do, but there’s also a greater risk that the person waiting gets impatient, or underestimates the gap needed, so I’d much rather be out of their way in the outside lane!

I do wonder if people saying ‘there’s no obligation’ have ever attempted to pull out from one of these junctions or a very short slip road. My car isn’t particularly powerful either which makes it extra stressful.

The OP has a car right behind her. If she had murdered over, it would have only been safe for Angry Man to join if that car had moved over too. Given how angry he was, any bets on whether he'd have pulled out straight into the path of the second car if the OP has moved?

In any event, Angry Man was able to safely join once there was a break in the traffic, so it actually wasn't a problem.

Yes, there are times when the circumstances mean people need to help you join, but given the ease that he was same to do it here, it doesn't sound like one of them.

Most of my local dual carriageways are 40-50, with only a few 70 stretches (which all have sliproads). Their visibility is excellent.

There are a lot of 60 roads though, with no second lane for traffic to go into, and with far less visibility, where you have to pick your moment carefully.

Moved, not murdered 😳

Haha. It’s ok, I think this angry person wanted to murder me like. But in all seriousness, I feel
like I have to check then check again when I change lanes. It doesn’t feel like a simple thing for me because I feel like one mistake and we’re all dead. That’s what I mean when I say I’m in a constant state of hypervigilence. I know I’m not a great driver so I avoid risky manoeuvres but it’s a vicious circle. DH says I’m amuch better driver than I give myself credit for so I think a lot of it is down to confidence plus common sense has never been my strength 😬

Changing lanes isn't risky if done properly. Why would you do it "without thinking"? You would carry out the usual checks and move over only if safe.

I feel like I have to check then check again when I change lanes.

This isn’t a bad thing though. You can check mirrors as you’re approaching a junction, check mirrors again if you need to move, and then quickly check over your shoulder. I’m constantly checking all around me. The more you do it the more it will become second nature. I really would recommend some advanced lessons. Not because I think you’re a bad driver, but because it will do a lot for your confidence and hopefully make driving feel less stressful.