To not see how the gov will make any money from taxing private schools?

[AngryHedgehog]

All the other threads seem to have descended into bunfighting over the ethics of the policy, yet I'm not really understanding how this stands to benefit the government as surely they'll be footing the bill for all the kids that move to state schools?

As a disclaimer, I don't have kids and wouldn't be able to afford to privately educate them even if I did, despite earning a half decent salary.

I'm reading that it costs around £7k per pupil per term, so it would take the VAT from around four families to fund each additional child moving to state education.

Given that this may be 4/10 kids in private education moving to state schooling, I don't see how this doesn't create a net loss as there will only be 50% more kids left in private education and there needs to be multiple times that for the VAT increase to foot the bill.

Surely I'm missing something here?

And the reality is that a lot of smaller schools will close so even if they can afford it they might be forced back into state anyway.

How is that going to help state schools? A child in private school costs the taxpayer £0 at the moment. If they move to state, the taxpayer has to shoulder the £8k a year cost of state school. The thread is about whether the policy will actually raise anything. Your point only goes to show that it probably won’t.

Most people do have a cushion and plan for annual fee increases of between 5-10% per year. Many people haven't allowed a cushion of a 28% rise, happening potentially this September. Which is what mine will be with the normal 8% (which we've budgeted for) plus 20% VAT.

VAT on Pricate schools thread number: 385499416253738829920

Bingo Cards at the ready.....

Dire state school
Child has SEN
Saving the state a fortune
House prices in good catchment areas will rise
No new cars
No foreign holidays
3847372828 children descending on state sector
Politics of Envy
Starmer went to a private school

Not sure if I've remembered them all, if not feel free to check the next 900 threads on the same subject coming shortly

If it bothers you, don’t click on them.

The fact that clicked on the thread then wrote some guff to be an arse, is bizarre.

why are you annoyed people are discussing wether it will raise money or not? What’s your objection?

Tbf this post deserves its own bingo card slot

Yep

The damage isn’t worth it though

I’m not sure that this answers the question that the original poster raised.

I won't argue with that. If funding was sufficient then people wouldn't be forced to send their SEN children to private school costing them thousands of pounds a year. Although apparently less people sending children to private school is a bad thing so perhaps people would prefer it all stayed the same?

@Houseplantmad my particular area has an issue where there’s a high proportion of working class white boys whose parents do not value education. These dc are being failed by their families and pupil premium evidence suggests that dc in schools with high pp levels do well as there’s investment but where that’s less but still significant (30-50% of pupils) the funding isn’t enough to make a difference and there’s not enough dc from supportive families to model behaviour that bring those dc up. The more dc a school has from families who are engaged in their education, the better the outcomes for that year group.

I used to work in this area of research (this was 11 years ago but the findings will still be true).

I think we'll see more high earners moving abroad too - it's definitely sonething we're considering.

Awww I have to pay VAT on a priviledged service that i didnt and still dont have to wah wah wah

Perhaps asking if the private schools could also stock some copium for the parents might be an idea, them sweet sweet salty tears 🤣🤣🤣🤣

They won't. It's a badly thought through spite tax, but because the right-leaning press has made such an enormous bloody fuss about it, Labour will now feel that they have to go through with it. I suspect they are fiercely regretting ever bringing it up.

Read my comment again. My daughter has an EHCP which is the only reason she has a private setting.

I never requested a private setting, either, btw - it was the only school who would take her as all state mainstream and state special schools either wouldn't take her as couldn't meet her needs or were full up.

I'm as poor as a church mouse, hardly one of these elites you rail against.

Do realise most people who are on this thread don’t have kids in private school?

I bet ex private and those that can afford it will be ok. Those that go on about ‘copium’ and all this I suspect will be as before

I don’t know if this is true but allegedly even KS accepts privately that this is not going to make money, it’s just a vote winner.

I teach at a private school and our burser has been planning for this for at least the last two academic years with the intention that the full amount won’t be passed on to parents.

"The politics of envy" is such a sneering lazy load of nonsense.
Wanting more egalitarian policies in some areas is motivated by envy. Even if it was (it isn't), the idea that that makes it morally reprehensible and should be sneered at relates to an old testament view of the world (and a selective one at that - greed is also a sin).

Just speculating here but there may be an additional pressure on private schools not related to the VAT.

There will be movement due to unaffordable fees (the combination of higher living costs, massive increase in school fees and the VAT is creating a huge pressure).

but there is an additional pressure from the top 1% earners (34% of total income tax contributions in 2018) where many are considering leaving the country. They are leaving due to the high overall taxes and the discontinued non-dom status. Many are of Indian heritage and Dubai has negligible tax, good schools and is closer to home. Their children are then taken out as well (possibly a London issue but we have four in our year that we know who are leaving).

it will be interesting to see how this will pan out, both for the private schools which will have fewer pupils, increased number of pupils in the state sector and possibly lower overall tax intake - less funding for NHS and school.

I think on MN the image of who uses private schools is skewed by the South/London-centric type of posts on these things.

The reality is that in many private schools outside of these areas there are parents who use private schools for a variety of reasons and many are not so wealthy increases don't make a big difference.

So whilst in some areas these may mean few people leave, in other areas it may lead to a school closing and all the children needing school places.

Many areas will be somewhere in the middle.

Do you have a SEN child? From your post I would guess you don’t. State children have a nominal amount of £6k spent on them by each school which is mandatory. A further £12k can be granted through an EHCP. Please don’t comment on things you know nothing about. Your views are so archaic. SEN children have a right to reasonable adaptions to be made for them during testing yes, sorry if this offends you.

No no, it’s nothing to do with the Old Testament. More to do with it being a massive dick move to spite a particular demographic of children, particularly without there being any tangible benefit likely to be received by those in the state sector. It won’t be egalitarian, there will still be inequality in the education sector, not least that the best off will still all be at private school - but also there is significant inequality within the state sector.

(Mine are state educated but I’m not a total arse who picks and chooses which children’s welfare is worthy of regard).

And you think a few ex private school pupils will resolve that? I went to school with boys like that, they bullied me so badly that I ended up attempting suicide. That was at a so called outstanding state school. Many of the DC that will end up being removed from private schools will be former state school pupils who were moved because their state schools didn’t support their SEN and other needs. If their parents couldn’t resolve the issue previously, they are not going to be able to magically do it now. In my case I would homeschool my privately educated DC which would result in a loss of £30k tax and NI to the government. I am not anti state school, I have one DC in a state school, but they do fail a lot of pupils and this VAT policy will do nothing to resolve that.

This was a useful contribution from someone with actual first hand knowledge -

I teach at a private school and our burser[sic] has been planning for this for at least the last two academic years with the intention that the full amount won’t be passed on to parents.

How many households with an income of £50k do you really think privately educate their children? Earning £100k puts you in the top 5% of earners. Not very middle at all.