To think that improving state schools needs people to pay an e.g. a state school tax?

[Theyhadsomehoneyandplentyofmoney]

What with the current hoo ha about VAT on private school and commentary about equality and privilege.. wouldn’t it make sense to vastly improve state schools? And in order to do so obviously the government needs more cash.

Isn’t it reasonable therefore to ask anyone using state schools, to pay a bit of tax for that, in order to improve all said schools from their (often) current dire state?

Honestly.. there's no need to be so obtuse. The parents for whom the extra 20% will make it unaffordable are understandably anxious and start threads or make comments on other threads to that effect. Hopefully, you are decent enough to abstain from minimising their valid concerns for their children.
We can expect to hear little on this or any forum from the very wealthy parents who perharps won't even notice the extra 20%. They are hardly likely to start any thread or comment on something they barely notice.
And then there's those in the middle who will notice but who have the means and determination to sacrifice even more to retain stability for their children. People in the middle like the OP, who has made a far more sensible and equitable proposal than the labour party leadership. Hope this helps.

My children go to private school. But I have watched these threads in astonishment. Endless streams of posters claiming everyone whose children are at state school should be in a mad panic because there will be a massive exodus from private school because noone can afford the fees. And yet the next post will tell us how all the private school parents are paying a huge marginal tax rate and state school parents are just envious of our wealth.

Then there are the equally unpleasant posts claiming all the independent school children will use up all the grammar school places. Ignoring the fact going to independent school isn't a mark of intelligence

In all reality, some children will leave private (but their parents finances must have been on a knife edge anyway), some parents will have to tighten their belts a bit (well, that's just life) and the rest of us will grit our teeth and put a bit less away in savings.

Maybe it's my job, that brings me up close to real struggles. Maybe it's the time I was homeless with toddlers. Either way, the fear mongering feels embarrassing and manipulative.

I get that it's crap for a small section on an individual level for those children who will have to leave. But if family finances were that precarious there may be some silver linings. (I went to private school for a while then chose to move to the state secondary and while my parents would have preferred me to stay in private I think in the long run we all enjoyed the better holidays and chance to do more hobbies- and I still went to Oxford and got a first and a career I love).

in reality for most parents it either won't really have an impact or will just mean cheaper holidays or smaller savings accounts. So the threats of 50 children in a state school class and similar fear mongering are just silly.

Please don’t tar us all with the same brush. My daughter is at private school. We moved her after 2 years of bullying and social isolation in state secondary school. Waiting lists for other local state schools were full and we considered moving to different catchment areas but that would have been a huge lifestyle change for the whole family. Private school seemed the best solution.

Shes thriving - her confidence has come back and she’s accepted and well-liked. We now have to consider whether to send our son there when he’s secondary age because we don’t want them having a disparity of education.

I am anxious about the likely fee increase. We cannot risk my daughter’s emotional well-being by taking her out but I genuinely don’t know if we can afford to keep her there or send her brother there. I dearly wish it wasn’t part of labour’s manifesto but it was always going to be and it’s not going to stop me voting for them. They are still a better party to govern this country than the shitshow we’ve had for the last 14 years.

I think all I’m saying is your empathy doesn’t need to be misplaced. I want Labour in power. I’ll have to figure out a way to ensure my daughter doesn’t have to move schools. I know I’m in a privileged position to have sent her there in the first place. I know private education is not a right - it’s not something I even considered until we had faced her coming home from school sobbing week after week. But I’m a little scared about what comes next for my family.

Countries thrive when there is less of a gap between rich and poor. So increasing taxes would likely help the state school system - unless it was regressive like the national lottery.

If you asked state school parents to pay for school. Many would stop sending their children. Some don't see the value. Others can't afford housing and food. That's why they bought in state education in the first place.

I can't believe that there are people walking among us holding views like this. It's nuts. A lot of this thread is nuts. Thinking people should, in essence, pay privately for education and health. Do you realise how backwards that is? That's what people did 100 years ago and lots and lots of poor people went hungry or got ill or died.

My nan was in and out of A&E like a yo-yo in the last stages of her dementia. You'd charge her? My son has a disability and probably attends A&E more than most children due to various associated conditions. You'd charge for that? Or you'd just charge the 'time wasters'? How would you justify the charge? Do you realise how much extra time, manpower and MONEY that process would absorb?

I really don't think you've thought this through properly.

We get it. You don’t want pay more in fees than you’re already paying.
So don’t. Use star schools.

I wasn’t being obtuse. I was responding solely to the poster who said a previous comment was spurious. I pointed out that there were a lot of posters in this very thread that claimed the position she was denying, therefore discrediting her claim.

I didn’t make a comment on the rest of the thread here.

I agree with chillys comment too - I had sympathy on an individual level but the attitudes displayed on these threads by some of the private school parents is really quite astonishing. Lashing out at the 93% who use their local schools
having zero idea of what some children in those schools are dealing with. It’s embarrassing.

I don’t agree with only users of state schools paying an extra tax . Some things are a collective responsibility like health and education. Everyone pays . I do think that all public services are in a mess and, while we need to be sure that there isn’t waste in the way they are managed, we alll might need to pay more taxes. ( including pensioners of which I’m one). Some people can’t seem to get their heads round paying for stuff that they might not use as an individual but are of general benefit.

I also don’t think private schools should be treated as charities and, yes, state schools should be improved. I do understand though that people are concerned about disrupting children who are already in private education and wonder if there’s a way of changing things more gradually over 5 years

I would have agreed it’s unfair to bring in to those already committed to privately educating. But after reading the attitudes espoused in these threads? Sympathy gone.

The OPs "sensible and equitable proposal" puts an additional burden on people who already struggle to afford to feed their children

It's not equitable at all, it's petulant "I have to pay more money for private school so the very poor in the country should have to pay more money for state school to make me feel better"

2.6 million children are in material deprivation in the UK and the OP would like their families to be worse off because she is as if the two situations are even comparable.

It's like complaining that the food you are eating at a Michelin star restaurant has VAT and instead of eating cheaper you demand that supermarket food also had VAT applied so poorer people who can't afford to eat at Michelin star restaurants understand how you feel.

There's nothing equitable about making poor people poorer

Absolutely MrsJack. Personally wouldn’t mind paying for a good state but some of the girls at dds all girl state girls comp live lives this op will likely never understand.

@MrsJackThornton but Labour’s policy is like adding VAT on Michelin star restaurant whilst still leaving 2.6 million children in material deprivation and being told this is a good start to tackling the poverty issue

There seems to be this weird resentment that there are some dream state schools that others are unfairly accessing. Honestly even the good state schools are dealing with the same issues as all the others teacher retention / over administration for teachers/ inability to remove nightmare pupils etc.

Dds friends mum is a single mum who works hard as a hospital cleaner. You want her to pay?

I didn't say that labour's idea was going to fix material deprivation

I challenged the idea that charging poor people who can't afford it more for education was "sensible and equitable"

Be a bit pointless considering everyone uses state schools, unless your suggesting creating an opt out system whereby you can get out of this new tax if you make no use at all of state education?

Not sure how easy it would be for those who went down the route to live or work in the UK though when they'd be banned from using roads, housing, m the NHS, public services, emergency services, many private services, supermarkets, shops, etc, etc, etc.

Oh and as a country with its own currency and central bank we don't need to raise taxes to create funding. Taxes are inflationary control and wealth redistribution measures, not funding mechanisms.

Any one with half a brain even if they don’t have children of their own sees the advantage of an educated population! Can only conclude this op is pretty dim.

There are many posts and articles showing actually, they won’t. But I understand your desire to believe it will. That’s what Labour are relying on after all.

There would be no uniforms. But the money would instead go to improving the schools.

This is my situation exactly, and so many others. I’ll still vote Labour but I wish they weren’t doing this.

‘Parents need to support the school and their children. Parents need to be engaged. An engaged and supportive parent is one of the biggest indicators of attainment at a level that matters/is important to the pupil’.

Absolutely. But so many parents don’t do this, and are not engaged at all. These parents would appreciate or take any help. Many would I’d hope, but from my own experience, most wouldn’t.

Not quite. Education is exempt from VAT at the moment. Hence no VAT on any educational service.

Labour are proposing to impose VAT on education. Only on private school educational services though.

So where does it end? What other educational services will Labour impose VAT on?

Quite. The entitlement in the U.K. is shocking.