The reaction to National Service on here

[MaryMaryVeryContrary]

Many European countries (including Scandinavian countries) have NS. Are they ‘ridiculous’? Or are their much-coveted-by-Mumsnet-users communities better because of their sense of individual responsibility and contribution?

If 24 days (that’s how long it would be in total) of delivering prescriptions or volunteering as a hospital guide has you talking about human rights violations and Nazi Germany, then it’s very clear that you’re so pampered a bit of NS would do you good.

Everyone on here expects the world in terms of a ’village’, generous benefits, a caring society, but wants to do fuck all to contribute to it and think the notion of them having to do ANYTHING for anyone else is insane.

It’s nuts!

I think this generation has a lot going on - climate change going nuts, a financial climate that makes it hard for them to see themselves being able to afford to buy themselves a house, both of these situations making them question whether having children is a responsible move. They've had an incredibly challenging time of it in terms of both health and education, with both systems having been run into the ground. That's before you bring the pandemic into it.

I can understand them thinking, 'hang about, why should we be all about society and community - sorry, but we're too busy trying to find some small sense of meaning and joy in our lives in the current shitshow that is our world. Why should we be prepared to be the unpaid workforce that is going to prop up this crumbling state of affairs that the previous generation or two has merrily allowed to come into being'?

My daughters currently work at least 40 hours a week on their studies, and 20 hours a week working to pay for their studies. They'll graduate with eye watering student loans to repay.

Hear, hear, well said @mbosnz .

Same here. Our youngest is in debt to the tune of £41K at 21 thanks to fees/loan. Our further education was free and we were both brought up in decent, warm council houses with gardens.

We’re selling up and downsizing so will be able to help him and his older sister to an extent. I have no idea how youngsters who don’t have that help manage now.

He's currently working full time in the part time job that he maintained throughout his degree course whilst he looks for his first professional role in his chosen field.

He gave up 16 months of his life, studying throughout sixth form at a screen in the attic to protect older people during the pandemic. Literally didn’t see another soul, spent his 18th birthday eating a takeaway with his mum and dad to protect vulnerable, elder relatives.

I’d say that was more than enough of a contribution to society for a young man to have made.

Yes, young people have contributed enough.

Yep, my DD not only had 18 months distance learning at Uni, she also worked as a carer at the weekend.

Her best friend is now 3rd year student nurse, works weekends in a hospice.... the idea these students should be forced to work for free for 5 weeks of the year, is nuts and draconian.

Labour need to highlight this.

I think it is a sensible idea. We don’t know what the future holds and like OP says is normal in Scandinavia. when did the UK become so can’t do rather than can do.

https://puolustusvoimat.fi/en/finnish-conscription-system#

Much like the Covid fines!!!!!

If you think this a good idea I presume that you are or have been an army reserve? The uk hasn't never been against actual volunteering. It is only against enforced unpaid labour which is what this is.

I think they should pay them something maybe minimum or apprentice wage. I have never been in the reserves although I understand they are paid for the days they do. I work in healthcare though and can see that there are areas where if people didn’t want to do a combat role they could sign up for roles in health and social care. Every year I lots of requests to spend time in my department but we don’t have capacity for them all but through a properly funded scheme we could offer that experience.

Really?

My DD said that whenever she had a student with her, her patient workload halved & thats with someone who wants to be there, a forced "volunteer" ? wouldn't get anything done at all.

How an earth would you increase capacity? you should know full well that takes experienced staff, time and space, all which are in very short supply.

Army reserves, again, they want to be there, many have served previously, so already know the basics

We have national service in Sweden. We also have a system which is centred on supporting children properly from the day they are born. Free education all the way through to the end of a masters. Free school dinners until 19. Maintenance grants for higher education. Council flats available within a month or two. Free, and actually available, dentists until 23. And a heck of a lot more.

Heck,next week is national day. Our entire town centre is taken over for a kids party. Food stalls, dozens of bouncey castles, icecream vans, music, entertainers, police cars and fire enguines to climb over, the military giving rides in their off road vehicles, even the council owned electricity company taking people up in their helicopter. And do you know how much kids and parents have to pay for all these activities? Nothing. They can stand at the BBQ and eat hotdogs tilll they're coming out of their ears if they want, no charge.

Our government values our kids. Sadly the UK government doesn't give a shit about yours.

Yes really. Spending time with practitioners is very common and has been for many years. Really helps those who don’t have great A levels or don’t know what they want to do or don’t want to throw money away doing a course that they aren’t sure about. I think national service with different options to suit a range of people would be great. In my area we don’t have enough handymen to put up grab rails etc to get people out of hospital. A truck and trailer approach would really benefit some young teens and give them the skills to help fix stuff for others in the future even if they don’t want to be doing that in the future. It would open so many people’s eyes.

We are all wanting the world without the effort of contributing to the world.

👏👏👏👏👏

Nailed it. Want your young people to value their country and support it? Support them in their turn. No one-sided forced labour.

So you have never put yourself out but think 18 years olds should give up whatever paid work they are doing at weekends to help fund their studies to do much lower paid work regardless of whether they want to.

When you say that you "work in healthcare" do you mean the NHS? You are deluded if you think this would be "properly funded" but if it was don't you think it could be better spend treating patients?

We are all wanting the world without the effort of contributing to the world.

Speak for yourself and perhaps contribute to the world yourself rather than volunteering others for it.

@Ritasueandbobtoo9
Let me get this right you think people should volunteer for healthcare and how much is this is of this any use of the patients get no say or does that not matter any more since there is so little of healthcare workers any more ? Do we really get no say any more ?

32 public service going above and beyond!

There are people stuck in hospital as there are no care workers.

That's not the answers to the current problems .So we are told in what is supposedly a rich country .

Not sure what you mean.

There are not enough care workers because it is a hard job and wages are low. It will certainly not make things better to force 18 year olds to work as care workers for free or very minimal wage.

Is £15 per hour a low wage for an 18 year with no qualifications? That’s what the going rate is in my authority.

32 years in public service. 3rd job at 20 in a care home for people with learning disability.

Where are your care homes where 18 year olds get £15 an hour? Because in most it's NMW. And that's NMW for age, not full adult NMW. The care home where my DS works as an administrator is very unusual in paying full NMW irrespective of age.

They won't be getting £15 an hour! You suggested an apprentice wage.

@wombat15 said that care worker wages are low. I am pointing out they are not that low but the posts are still not filled. I live in Wales.

National Service could deploy people to areas where help is needed most. It doesn’t have to be combat role. In Finland you can do national service between 18-30 years of age.

I get that people don’t like the idea but we are in a crisis, too many people at all levels are taking but not giving. I wouldn’t particularly like to volunteer but people could think big, think outside the box and create schemes which really help.

agree!