To vent? Feeling like a ‘fourth wheel’

[ComingUpTrumps]

I’ve just been on a holiday with some friends, and although I’ve enjoyed the holiday overall, I also feel a bit flat tbh.

There are 4 of us altogether in this group of friends, and we met through at a languages social organised by our work.

The 4 of us all have a European language in common. 2 of the 4 are native speakers, 1 speaks it almost like a native speaker and I speak it well but often make silly mistakes and don’t practise it that often, so am not fluent yet.

Since meeting at the social, we’ve known each other for a couple of years and have met up regularly for coffee and cake and stuff. We arranged to go on holiday last year for a weekend, and booked the flights/accomm etc. However I found out I couldn’t go at the last minute due to a family emergency, so the 3 of them went together, which worked out for everyone and it seems they all had a really good time.

We then booked this current holiday a couple of months ago, for a week together. I was really looking forward to it, as I’ve enjoyed spending time with the others so far, and we had a lunch together with us/partners/the neighbours of one of the women - hosted by one of the women at her house - which I had fun at too.

However, I’m not sure I’ve really enjoyed spending time with the group this holiday very much. I think they’re bonded as a 3, but I don’t feel like we’ve really bonded as a 4. They’re all perfectly nice to me, and I’ve had fun doing activities with them on the holiday, but I feel like a bit like a ‘fourth wheel’ tbh.

During the holiday, none of them have shown an interest in me or my life, or even asked how I’m feeling. I’m quite curious - not nosey, as I wouldn’t say I’m indiscreet or that I pry or anything - and I tend to ask people lots of questions - but part of the conversation, in a balanced way, ofc - but none of them have asked me about my life or included me in anything. Two of the women are direct and extroverted, and they tend to take the lead on stuff, and the other is a bit quieter.

Also, this holiday is in a place that’s very popular with British people, and the other 3 didn’t seem to know that beforehand. I did mention it when we were booking, and it didn’t seem to matter at that point. However, they really noticed it this week and one of them in particular has been saying how she’d wanted to use this holiday to get away from British people and have a break from them (jokingly) but hasn’t managed to. To be fair, we haven’t actually seen or spent time with any British people, and have managed to ‘avoid’ them, but it’s made me feel a bit sort of defensive, if that makes sense - although I haven’t shown that to them outwardly or anything. It’s just made me
feel again like I don’t fit in with the 3 of them.

It sounds strange to write, as they’re all perfectly nice, but it’s made me think that actually we don’t really have much in common apart from the fact we all work in the same company and speak the same language.

I’ve just felt a bit like wallpaper on this trip tbh. It’s like they can take me or leave me, and it’s made me feel quite sad. I thought we worked well as a group of 4 before the holiday, and we’ve all been supportive of each other, but I just feel like we have nothing in common (me and the.3 of them, I mean). We speak in a mixture of English and our other common language.

All 3 of them speak fluent English, as they’ve all lived in England for several years now for work and they all have English partners. I’m single, whilst the 3 of them have partners (who we’ve all met and have got on well with so far). Whilst I’m a native English speaker, I’ve felt out of my depth quite a bit this week when speaking the common language, and it’s felt mentally taxing tbh.

Because of this, and because I know I’ve made mistakes speaking in our common language this week, I’ve felt unconfident and unsure with them, which has brought out my ‘people pleasing’ side and made me seek reassurance from them, which has sort of pissed them off (understandably) and the dynamic between us has just been a bit meh.

On a positive note, I’ve never practised the language more than this week, which has proved to me that I can get by in it very well and I’ve learned a lot, but I feel like what’s in the point in even trying to speak it with them when they all speak excellent English. I feel like I’ve shown ‘resilience’ this week in many ways, but I feel like it hasn’t really been a break for me, if that makes sense.

This might sound dramatic, but I’m sort of re-evaluating the friendship tbh. It’s not always easy when you go on holiday with your friends of course, but I’ve gone on holiday with other friendship groups in the past and it’s mostly been really lovely and easy. This one has felt strange as I just feel like I’ve been ignored and left out - not in a malicious way though, which makes it even more strange and frustrating. Maybe we’re just not compatible - I don’t know.

I guess I’m partly writing this to vent and to ask for reassurance tbh. Thanks if you’ve made it this to the end of the post haha.

It doesn't sound like you're compatible. Sharing a language isn't enough, that's like going on holiday with 3 random native English speaking people. If that's all you've got, it's not enough.
It's a shame that they've bonded in a way that you haven't. I'd probably not put too much effort into maintaining a friendship with this group.

Are you still on holiday distance yourself do your own thing and enjoy it don’t let this ruin it

Oh dear OP, I can relate. When specifically nothing has exactly gone wrong but it just all falls a bit flat socially. Its a crap feeling.

If you are still on the holiday, maybe break out the wine tonight?

I totally agree with this - you’ve hit the nail on the head.

I just don’t think I have enough in commmon with them and the 3 of them all have lots of common experiences that they can share.

I’m definitely glad I went on this holiday but I don’t think I’ll go on holiday with them again. I think our friendship has sort of run its course. I think that’s a shame, but for me, this holiday seems like a natural way to let it peter out. It’s sort of crystallised for me that we just don’t have much in common at all.

I think the thing I’m most sad about really is that I think I really tried on this holiday - tried with using our common language and tried to fit in with them, which was never an issue before. I think what this holiday has taught me most, actually, is that I can be quite resilient. All 3 of them are super-resilient and quite tough - at least they come across that way - and I realise that I’ve compared myself a lot with them this week and found myself lacking, but actually I’ve learned I’m quite resilient too and shouldn’t think I’m lacking anything in comparison to them.

Yeah absolutely. I’m sorry you’ve had a similar experience too. Last day tomorrow, so not too long left. It all feels quite transactional and perfunctory, which is a weird feeling and not a very nice one!

Thanks! Luckily it’s the last day tomorrow. I’m quite relieved that tomorrow is the last day tomorrow, but equally just feel quite sad. I just feel very weird about the whole thing really - it feels as if I’m watching the 3 of them having a fantastic time together and I’m just not included. I’ve never ever had that feeling before. Very weird.

It’s just so strange, as whenever I’ve contributed to a conversation on the holiday so far, it’s felt as if they can’t wait for me to finish speaking and then they’ll just reply with very concise monosyllabic answers.

When you sought reassurance and they were pissed off - that seems unkind of them, too. How did that manifest itself?

I think it’s a good plan to distance yourself, without any drama or comment. I hope you have a great last day, feeling proud of your resilience in dealing with this (it would affect anyone). Detach from them and maybe take yourself off for some lone exploration?

@AtrociousCircumstance has it right - distance yourself quietly and own the resilience with which you've dealt with the clique-y Mean Girls.
When you return, join a language Meet-Up group or take a course - you'll practise your language and meet new friends.

I don’t think they meant to be unkind - I think they just felt frustrated at me, as I think there may be a cultural barrier and language barrier between us.

They’re all quite direct and straightforward, which I find very welcome, because I know where I am with them. However, sometimes it tips over into unwelcome territory, verging on rudeness - e.g. one of them became frustrated with me this evening when I didn’t know how to say a word in our common language, so I then said it in English and asked her how to say it in the other language, and she said she couldn’t always help me with translations because she is ‘not a dictionary’ and ‘Google is my best friend’ in this situation.

In and of itself, that comment is totally fine and fair and I wouldn’t think anything of it, but I just found it a bit off as we were all with the other girls when she said that and I felt a bit like I was being told off/singled out (as there are already so many differences between me and them - e.g. they’re all continental European and I’m not; they’re all fluent in English and the common language and I’m not; they all have a shared experience and understanding of living in England, working in a high profile job in our industry and having English partners; and a weird one but they’re all quite open and experimental in terms of what they do with their partners, and I’m not).

Another example: we were having a meal out today and the food was quite messy (dessert with lots of fruit juice and sauce in it) and were sort of jokingly checking our teeth and lips after to see if the juice had stained them. I asked one of the women about my lips/teeth and she said my lips were a bit stained with the juice, and I replied ‘oh god’ in what I meant as a kind of jokey, mock serious comment, and she rolled her eyes and said my name in this sort of impatient, frustrated way, as if she thought I was being overly self conscious and worried about my appearance. It’s a tiny tiny thing, but it just wound me up. It was as if she was getting impatient with me over nothing and I felt frustrated.

All of them are quite impatient, and that’s just how they are - it’s not necessarily a bad thing - but it doesn’t help when you’re getting to know each other. I feel like they’re much further along in the friendship than me as they’ve already been on holiday together and I just feel as if I haven’t been given any ‘grace’ or allowances.

I just feel like they generally have much more in common with each other than me. I wouldn’t say we have any shared interests apart from travel and eating good food, which aren’t really much to go on. I’ve tried to find other shared interests between us but don’t feel like I’ve got anywhere. This is all very petty and minor in the grand scheme of things, and it is helping me to articulate how I feel by writing it here, but I just feel like our personalities, cultural differences and the language make us unsuited.

Thanks! 🩷 I wouldn’t say they’re ‘mean girls’ as they’re all actually nice people, and they don’t mean to be nasty or rude, but I would say that we’re just very different people.

@ComingUpTrumps

I also 🤔 think in other cultures European cultures etc
they can be far more naturally direct and straight to the pint etc
which can come across as something else when it's not
So I agree with you about that,

I think even when in life you have negative experinces in life there can still be aspects of that kind of experinces can learn from too,
skills and experinces that can be transferable in a different ways moving on wards,

I agree with other poster make the last day your day in which you go off on a small adventure and do your own thing whatever you enjoy doing exploring ect,

Also join participate in new hobbies and interests etc
Make new friends that way...
your more likely got more things in common that way..

Enjoy your last day make the most of it ...

Stop being so understanding-they are mean!

one of them became frustrated with me this evening when I didn’t know how to say a word in our common language, so I then said it in English and asked her how to say it in the other language, and she said she couldn’t always help me with translations because she is ‘not a dictionary’ and ‘Google is my best friend’ in this situation.
If all you have in common is the language but they take this attitude, then what is left?
They sound unpleasant and aren't doing your self-confidence much good. Keep the relationship at the coffee'n'cake level and don't waste any more annual leave on them.

They don’t sound very fun to be around.
sometimes it’s a gift when we find out we no longer need to pour energy into trying so hard to fit with people.

if you didn’t spend time and energy trying to fit with these people, you might have more opportunities to meet people you don’t have to work so hard with, and can be yourself around!

glad your vacation is almost over, OP.

Sometimes it’s not that anyone is at fault, it’s just that it’s not a good fit.

It sounds to me like you've discovered the reality of living in your second language! It's uncomfortable but actually a brilliant learning experience. The 2 native speakers may feel like you did most of the time when using English. Your whole personality changes. I completely understand it's not a nice feeling, and you can choose not to repeat it. It's probably mostly you though. The group are likely to be fine again at coffee in the uk. I'm a brilliant witty person it English (obviously ;) ) but turn into a people pleaser who always said yes to things I don't 100% understand, can't always follow conversations in bars and makes weird childlike jokes in my other languages.

Sounds like they don’t like British people really. Despite the fact they are married to one / live here. It’s quite common 🙄.

I know what you mean OP and well done for getting through a week of that.

It's not that.

It's just you have to actively think a lot when living in a culture different to the one you grew up in, they just wanted a bit of time not having to do the extra work.

I agree with this.

@ComingUpTrumps you're putting all the blame onto them, and not reflecting enough on how you felt or acted different due to the very new context.

Maybe. Who knows. I’ve lived in several different countries / cultures and never felt that way.

Maybe. Who knows. I’ve lived in several different countries / cultures and never felt that way.

Same. I've felt the uncomfortable not fitting in feeling OP describes but it hasn't had a bearing on that and I've lived on three continents.

Do you all live in the UK? They seem pretty mean about British people

Oh I know the type of thing you mean OP.
I remember that type of thing from college and a couple of early jobs I had..

But you are all on holiday together!.
How bloody rude of them. These are adult women but they are coming across as infantile.
I'd be mortified to make someone feel the way they are making you feel.

I don't think they deserve your friendship 😐

I think it’s a bit strong to say I’m blaming them. I don’t think I blame them at all in my posts I’ve written so far. I think I’ve been quite careful to get perspective on the whole situation and not to say that the challenges I’ve had this week are because of the people I went on holiday with. I think that’s a bit harsh - and not quite right - to suggest I’m blaming them, but I appreciate that maybe my posts come across that way.