To vent? Feeling like a ‘fourth wheel’

[ComingUpTrumps]

I’ve just been on a holiday with some friends, and although I’ve enjoyed the holiday overall, I also feel a bit flat tbh.

There are 4 of us altogether in this group of friends, and we met through at a languages social organised by our work.

The 4 of us all have a European language in common. 2 of the 4 are native speakers, 1 speaks it almost like a native speaker and I speak it well but often make silly mistakes and don’t practise it that often, so am not fluent yet.

Since meeting at the social, we’ve known each other for a couple of years and have met up regularly for coffee and cake and stuff. We arranged to go on holiday last year for a weekend, and booked the flights/accomm etc. However I found out I couldn’t go at the last minute due to a family emergency, so the 3 of them went together, which worked out for everyone and it seems they all had a really good time.

We then booked this current holiday a couple of months ago, for a week together. I was really looking forward to it, as I’ve enjoyed spending time with the others so far, and we had a lunch together with us/partners/the neighbours of one of the women - hosted by one of the women at her house - which I had fun at too.

However, I’m not sure I’ve really enjoyed spending time with the group this holiday very much. I think they’re bonded as a 3, but I don’t feel like we’ve really bonded as a 4. They’re all perfectly nice to me, and I’ve had fun doing activities with them on the holiday, but I feel like a bit like a ‘fourth wheel’ tbh.

During the holiday, none of them have shown an interest in me or my life, or even asked how I’m feeling. I’m quite curious - not nosey, as I wouldn’t say I’m indiscreet or that I pry or anything - and I tend to ask people lots of questions - but part of the conversation, in a balanced way, ofc - but none of them have asked me about my life or included me in anything. Two of the women are direct and extroverted, and they tend to take the lead on stuff, and the other is a bit quieter.

Also, this holiday is in a place that’s very popular with British people, and the other 3 didn’t seem to know that beforehand. I did mention it when we were booking, and it didn’t seem to matter at that point. However, they really noticed it this week and one of them in particular has been saying how she’d wanted to use this holiday to get away from British people and have a break from them (jokingly) but hasn’t managed to. To be fair, we haven’t actually seen or spent time with any British people, and have managed to ‘avoid’ them, but it’s made me feel a bit sort of defensive, if that makes sense - although I haven’t shown that to them outwardly or anything. It’s just made me
feel again like I don’t fit in with the 3 of them.

It sounds strange to write, as they’re all perfectly nice, but it’s made me think that actually we don’t really have much in common apart from the fact we all work in the same company and speak the same language.

I’ve just felt a bit like wallpaper on this trip tbh. It’s like they can take me or leave me, and it’s made me feel quite sad. I thought we worked well as a group of 4 before the holiday, and we’ve all been supportive of each other, but I just feel like we have nothing in common (me and the.3 of them, I mean). We speak in a mixture of English and our other common language.

All 3 of them speak fluent English, as they’ve all lived in England for several years now for work and they all have English partners. I’m single, whilst the 3 of them have partners (who we’ve all met and have got on well with so far). Whilst I’m a native English speaker, I’ve felt out of my depth quite a bit this week when speaking the common language, and it’s felt mentally taxing tbh.

Because of this, and because I know I’ve made mistakes speaking in our common language this week, I’ve felt unconfident and unsure with them, which has brought out my ‘people pleasing’ side and made me seek reassurance from them, which has sort of pissed them off (understandably) and the dynamic between us has just been a bit meh.

On a positive note, I’ve never practised the language more than this week, which has proved to me that I can get by in it very well and I’ve learned a lot, but I feel like what’s in the point in even trying to speak it with them when they all speak excellent English. I feel like I’ve shown ‘resilience’ this week in many ways, but I feel like it hasn’t really been a break for me, if that makes sense.

This might sound dramatic, but I’m sort of re-evaluating the friendship tbh. It’s not always easy when you go on holiday with your friends of course, but I’ve gone on holiday with other friendship groups in the past and it’s mostly been really lovely and easy. This one has felt strange as I just feel like I’ve been ignored and left out - not in a malicious way though, which makes it even more strange and frustrating. Maybe we’re just not compatible - I don’t know.

I guess I’m partly writing this to vent and to ask for reassurance tbh. Thanks if you’ve made it this to the end of the post haha.

Totally agree. Sounds like a plan to just see it as a learning experience and move on. Thanks!

@ComingUpTrumps sure google is your friend. But to expect you to look something up during the conversation would just slow things down and the delivery was a little unkind. You can tell them that too if they keep on (in a light, jokey way, not a big row). Are you younger? I don’t think you need to be in awe of these 3 or give their bonding any more thought. Do what you feel like doing today/tomorrow - say you’re off to practise your language skills or something, buy a book in the language and start reading that and look on this as a valuable experience. You can still work well together but maybe skip the trips!

Out of interest, what is the common language you all speak? I think I can guess, and if my guess is right, you're well rid.

I’m so sorry you’ve had this experience - it’s shit. Your experience with having your baby in that country also sounds so difficult and frightening.

This language I’m mentioning - the one I have in common with these 3 women - is my third language.

My second language is another European language, which I feel heaps more confident in. I have been in difficult situations with that language before, but have never ever been made to feel like this. In my second language, I spent a year working on the country where that language is spoken and living with several host families. I was young at that time - 18 - and made lots of mistakes and was learning and growing up, and not one person in the host families or in the wider circle of people I met on that year ever made me feel vulnerable or uncomfortable. They all treated me so well.

Spanish. Haha I hope I can prove you wrong! 🤣 To be fair, everyone else we met on this holiday (in a Spanish speaking area of Europe) has been very nice to me!

It was lovely speaking to British people at the airport today whilst queuing for the flight haha! Both speaking in English and to British people. I am looking forward to going back home!

That's a weird generalisation!

Feeling a bit lonely on holiday is shit. Especially sharing rooms. I'm pretty extroverted but have learned that communal living is not really for me.Sometimes I want a bit of space from people to relax, or just to get on with things in my own way. If you were on your own turf or has a bit more opportunity to escape the dynamic I don't think it would be weighing on your mind as much or making you feel so vulnerable and sad. Never mind, it's a learning experience as you say, and you'll be home soon.

No, you didn't prove me wrong lol. I thought Spanish or German at a pinch.

Don't worry, French wasn't my guess.

Don't worry, French wasn't my guess.

In fairness, you were a teenager presumably in your first substantial period living abroad, not an adult and host families are paid/rxpected to treat you with reasonable consideration — I worked as an au pair in France aged 18, and the family were lovely to me, despite my initially poor French. We’ve also hosted the teenage children of friends from the continent on work experience here. It’s a completely different situation to going on holiday as an adult with native speakers of a language who don’t owe you a duty of care, just want a fun break, and presumably also want a break from functioning in a second/third language and a foreign culture, even if they speak English well and are fairly acculturated to the UK. When you add in the fact that they were reverting (it sounds) to their own cultural norms, and that you don’t in fact know them all that well and have never holidayed with them before, I think there’s your explanation for why you felt ill-integrated in the group.

Yes, absolutely - you’re spot on. I agree with this.

They sound like a bunch of rude mares to me no matter where they come from. Or what language they speak. Fuck em I say.

They don't sound very kind and now you know. It has been a positive language experience which is great. Be glad it was only one week. Seek out other opportunities to practice your Spanish and leave them to their mean girl vibe.

I think they knowingly went on holiday with a British woman who is speaking her 3rd language - it's not too much to ask they be a bit patient if you don't know a word and refrain from make snarky comments about British people in your presence! They haven't behaved in a friendly way imo.

Sorry your holiday was a bit shit OP

These people do not sound very nice, why ask you to google a word when she knew it!!

Bloody rude.

You sound lovely so sack them off and let them get on with it, Three never works either though.😆

The people who don't realise somebody is left out and make sure they are included are NOT the people to be with.

I wouldn't go away with them again, but would still go out for dinner/drinks. They sound very impatient and a little rude towards you.

They sound unkind OP, sounds like they enjoyed being away previously and relaxing into their native language and now you've gone and ( completely unintentionally) spoiled that because they need to be considerate and speak a bit more slowly and do a bit of mild translation. The statement about google was really unkind.

I'd do my own thing for the last day if possible, you might even prefer having dinner on your own. I had a similar sort of vibe on an activity holiday before, one lady was lovely but very much went with the flow, one was ok but very impatient and seemed to think everyone should live their lives the way she did and the last one was blunt and unpleasant- I couldn't understand how the others liked her. It was a learning experience for me, but not a relaxing holiday - next year I'm bringing my actual friends with me .

Thanks - yeah I think this is a good plan.

To be honest, I think their approach has come from a place of can’t-be-arsedness rather than from a place of malice or intentionally wanting me to feel upset or excluded. They obviously gelled together well on the previous trip they took that I couldn’t go on and just continued that dynamic into this trip. I tried to slot in but it didn’t work well.

They are acquaintances tbh, so in hindsight, going on holiday wasn’t the best idea. Although the three are also in that acquaintance role for each other too, they have probably bonded together more closely because of that previous holiday together and because of the things they have in common (European, speak English as a second language, have settled in the UK with partners who are native English speakers).

Hi Op, just catching up on this thread as I too have had similar experiences. Hope you’re alright now?

Perhaps a bit left field but do you think everything is alright at home will all of them? The dynamic with their boyfriends sounds quite concerning to me.

That said, they are very lucky to have you as a friend and I wouldn’t be wasting any more time on them, at least as holiday buddies. Perhaps coffee acquaintances and nothing more.