To think schools should get with the times re working parents.

[working8til4]

Why can't they be open 8-6 for everyone? It would help reduce gender inequality in the work place

AIBU - DON'T BE SILLY
YANBU - actually you have a point

This!!

I definitely think it needs to be a longer day, my child has been in nursery full time since year dot. A longer day at school would create more time for play and education. I don’t mind paying for wrap around but they don’t actually provide it, those saying it’s there at all schools certainly don’t live where I do. Even harder for families with disabled or ND kids I would assume as no provision for them.

Apparently teachers have children too; who knew?

People generally want their summer holiday in the summer.

Exactly! Teachers need to plan for lessons, mark books, deal with data, have meetings, prepare resources, organise the classroom, train, coach other teachers, etc.. in order to teach your child! Schools are not for childcare! Schools are for education!

Yep and also for school staff who have their own children to pick up! 🙄

School staff also have their own children to pick up with nurseries or wraparound care?

I think working hours need to be way more flexible, rather than children needing to spend so long in schools.

Hybrid working and WFH are the positives that came from covid.

I don't understand why more workplaces are stuck on 9-5 schedules. If they offered more flexibility they could probably get more done, as there are people who prefer to work as early as 7am, or start at 11am.

Or do compressed hours.

It would be great if they organised more before and after school clubs. 7am-9am and 3pm-6pm. They could do homework or extra sports ect. Something that can be run by people other than teachers. I know this could help parents work more hours or get better jobs. It's hard to find childcare for just a couple of hours twice a day, especially for people who don't live in cities where there are plenty of childminders.

It's hard to find childcare for just a couple of hours twice a day

Swap childcare for ‘staff willing to work minimum wage’ and that’s exactly what many head teachers have found and is the reason why they aren’t offering wraparound care.

Ha, good luck with getting staff for that.

Just curious but if you met the stress test, why are you now struggling? The bank says to a customer, "if rates were to go up to 8%, your repayment would be £xxxx can you afford that?" Did you say yes? Is your rate not above 8%?

Ultimately times have changed and we all now want to live in houses that cost a lot more than in our grandparents' generation, me included.

My story is different to yours and in telling it I hope you dont think I'm attacking your choices. Personally it made no financial sense for me to return to work after maternity. I was a teacher and I would have brought home nothing after childcare. As a result we don't go on holiday at all, as well as many other economies, and I picked up some seasonal part time work to make ends meet. Following this I decided to homeschool and it's a happy way of life.

Totally agree with this.

Also balance needs to shift to DC, families and not further towards employer needs

Why should it be free?

Yeah, they could. Marvellous idea. 'They' could. Of course 'they' could.

I work in a school doing (among other things) the wraparound care admin. Do you have any idea how hard it is to actually recruit staff to run wraparound care activities? How impossible it is to find people who actually want to work in a breakfast club or after-school club?

Schools in our area are always advertising for wraparound care playworkers, and finding them is nigh on impossible. Because very often it's a shit, badly paid job and no-one wants it. Because very often (not always, but very often) it involves dealing with tired, badly behaved children and rude, entitled parents.

Even before you get onto the debate as to whether staying at school for 10+ hours is actually a healthy thing for a child, the logistics of trying to run a wraparound care facility are daunting. Yeah, lots of people want wraparound care. But no-one wants to work in wraparound care.

The current system isn't working but enforcing an 8-6 day on schools is really really not the answer.

Where is this? When my DS was at school in Spain, it finished at 1.30 and there was no lunch at school. There were also no breakfast or after school clubs. Working parents had child minders or nannies. I think it must be regional.

Yeah, lots of people want wraparound care. But no-one wants to work in wraparound care.

This!

For goodness sake, schools are not there for baby sitting. They are there for educating children. Before and after school care should be the responsibility of the parents, not schools. This idea that some of you seem to have that schools can operate child minding all these extra hours before and after the start of lessons is ridiculous. Teaching staff cannot perform all their extra duties before and after the start of the child’s lessons (staff meetings, lesson planning, classroom preparation, data analysis, data collection, writing reports for other professionals regarding a child’s needs, meeting with other professionals ( psychologists, social workers for example) , etc, etc, whilst also looking after your children at the same time. The children would have to be somewhere. Oh yes, their classrooms - just where the teacher needs to be before the start of and at the the end of the teaching day to do the majority the things I’ve listed. But hey, surely they can fit a bit of child care in at the same time, after all, they’re paid enough, (yeh, right) and surely they can do some of these extra things at home (actually, they do do some of these things at home), so your children can be cared for by them until 6 pm! (🤬), after all, they don’t have lives of their own to live do they. Some even have their own children to care for you know, children they might actually like to have the opportunity to spend time with, rather than child mind yours.

I’m convinced that some of you still believe that teaching staff roll into school 10 minutes before the bell rings for start of lessons and roll out again at the end of the school day 10 minutes after the children have left, so surely can take on extra hours to look after your children. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it doesn’t work like that.

Let’s not forget, too, that they are your children, and you are the ones that have responsibility for the majority of their care - not teachers, not child minders, not after school club leaders.

Whilst they are at school, for learning, then of course, teachers are responsible for their care and well being - that’s a given, and rightly so, they have a duty of care which is as it should be, but before and after the school day it’s you, the parents, who have that role, and it’s therefore your responsibility to sort out child care to fit around your working life, rather than expect schools to do that job for you by being open for extra hours to effectively child mind.

And not only this, when people suggest all companies start splitting shifts to allow parents to finish at 3 while others work the late shift, I can guarantee that once those with children no longer need to do the school run they won't be volunteering to start doing like 3-8!
No one WANTS to work unsociable crap hours. I can't see many people actively seeking out to work 7-9am then 3-6pm.

This idea that some of you seem to have that schools can operate child minding all these extra hours before and after the start of lessons is ridiculous.

So here's a plan for all these parents desperate for wraparound care/childminder provision whose work days are inflexible: Have a career change! Set up your own childcare business! Become a childminder, or set up your own wraparound care facility! You'd have no shortage of clients, would you?

"Ooh, but no, because the pay is rubbish...and the hours are not family friendly...and I couldn't pay my rent/mortgage if I was only earning what a childcare worker earns...and I wouldn't be there for my own DC would I...and the DC I'd be looking after would be really hard work wouldn't they....and the parents would be rude and entitled and it would be really stressful and it's just not worth it...."

and that's why people don't want to work in wraparound care.

I think that’s a question a lot of young women are now asking themselves and their answer is reflected in the falling birth rate.

I work in wraparound care. All our staff are female. The school I work at runs the breakfast club and after school club. It is run as a not for profit organisation and is very affordable. I think more schools could do this.

From what so many posters have said, it seems like plenty of schools do offer wraparound childcare and also plenty of schools don’t. I wonder what divides the two groups? Is it a difference in attitudes of school management or different demographics? Are the areas with no wraparound childcare awash with SAHPs? Or are there some amazing 9am to 3pm jobs available there, unlike the rest of the country? Why can some schools make it work and others not?

The teachers posting here seem determined to ignore the fact the OP has said she doesn’t expect the extra childcare to be operated by teachers.

From three years old, children in France have a free écoles maternelles place from 8h30, a paying breakfast club can be ealier, till 4.30 pm with a paying after school club till 6pm, Some schools have places for younger children but all have to be clean. The children eat at the canteen a three course French lunch and they have an afternoon nap. The classes are large but the teacher has an assistant. Schools employ assistants for extra outside hours. Primary starts at the age of 6 with the same hours. Maybe the UK could take some good ideas from other countries to help mothers back to work with less stress.

The teachers posting here seem determined to ignore the fact the OP has said she doesn’t expect the extra childcare to be operated by teachers

No they don't. Some teachers have posted this.