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Paula Vennels being questioned at the Post Office Inquiry, followed by others - thread 2

961 replies

nauticant · 24/05/2024 09:29

A continuation of the discussion started by@Sausagenbaconhere:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5080262-to-enjoy-hearing-paula-vennels-being-taken-apart

Paula Vennells' 3 days of evidence ends today but there are more hearings coming up and we can discuss those too.

When the hearings are going on, live-streaming can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/featured

All of the previous hearings can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

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KTheGrey · 07/06/2024 16:13

DanielGault · 07/06/2024 15:31

I don't think it would be in any way fair to punish their families tbh. Their bibs have been well dirtied already and they've not even done anything!

I don't want their families gone after. But the nepotism is off the scale with politicians and high level public servants. If it's a punishment not to have favourable treatment in appointment to high level jobs, then the vast majority of people are punished. They can do the jobs most people do, which contribute value to society, on the basis of their ability, be that chemistry or train driving or business, but not public service gravy train jobs. Those seriously need to be appointed like Caesar's Wife - immaculate record and absolutely not who you know.

DanielGault · 07/06/2024 16:23

KTheGrey · 07/06/2024 16:13

I don't want their families gone after. But the nepotism is off the scale with politicians and high level public servants. If it's a punishment not to have favourable treatment in appointment to high level jobs, then the vast majority of people are punished. They can do the jobs most people do, which contribute value to society, on the basis of their ability, be that chemistry or train driving or business, but not public service gravy train jobs. Those seriously need to be appointed like Caesar's Wife - immaculate record and absolutely not who you know.

It's not for them to be punished. IDK how bad of a problem nepotism is in the UK, but if it's anything like Ireland, people with money/connections will wheedle their way into most things. Including jobs for the kids. It's just a general rich people thing. As old as time. But it doesn't really relate to this. (*Predicts Vennels progeny in the dock in 20 years time).

Newbutoldfather · 07/06/2024 18:21

Just a little perspective:

This circus will wrap up in September at a cost to the taxpayer of around £200 million.

‘In October 2023, I announced our intention to provide funding of up to £150 million, plus any contingency that may be required, to support the Post Office fully participating in the Post Office Horizon it inquiry and to support the delivery of redress to postmasters.
Since then, those costs have increased and the Government have decided to provide access to contingency funding, and award a further £40 million to ensure Post Office can continue to deliver this important work. The Government remain determined to address the wrongs of the Horizon scandal.’

Contrast this with the criminal enquiry, surely of far more interest to any subpostmaster who has had to share a cell for months or years and slop out.

‘Criminal inquiry into Post Office scandal set to involve 80 detectives and cost £6.75m. A CRIMINAL inquiry into the Post Office scandal is set to involve 80 detectives and cost £6.75million. It will look into claims of perverting justice and perjury after 900 sub-postmasters were wrongly convicted.’

And from the post office website:

‘Post Office has identified a total of 700 convictions in cases it prosecuted between 1999 and 2015 in which Horizon computer evidence might have featured. We have contacted the majority, although there remain 25 people we are still unable to trace despite continuing strenuous efforts to do so. The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) has also, separately, contacted people who had not yet responded to Post Office. Details can be found on the CCRC website here.
The total number of all overturned convictions as of 30 April 2024 is 103. This includes ten cases in which Post Office was not the prosecutor.
More than £43 million has been paid in compensation to date, including 41 full and final settlements.’

So 200 mio plus to be splurged on this public mea minima culpa in under 2 years, £43 mio to compensate the victims paid so far, and less than £7 mio to actually try to put the truly guilty in jail.

It kind of speaks for itself.

CCRC offers help to potential Post Office applicants - Criminal Cases Review Commission

The Criminal Cases Review Commission (CCRC) has written to around 170 former Post Office sub-postmasters and counter staff convicted for

https://ccrc.gov.uk/news/ccrc-offers-help-to-potential-post-office-applicants/

londonmummy1966 · 07/06/2024 19:16

Has anyone seen this weeks Private Eye - a good piece on the Road to Damascus moent for St Paula - "Why are you persecuting my people" and her "tissue of lies"

nauticant · 09/06/2024 16:03

A bit of a curiosity of a guest appearance by Alan Bates:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m00201vk

The programme is about the meanings of Orwellian and Kafkaesque and from just after 18 minutes it has a short segment with Bates talking about his experience of striving against injustice in a system that seemed stacked against him.

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SinnerBoy · 09/06/2024 22:23

DanielGault · 07/06/2024 15:31

I don't think it would be in any way fair to punish their families tbh.

Surely one of the perils of a criminal conviction is that the family suffers, too? Is it not one of the things supposed to act as a deterrent? And what's so bad about cutting of neoptistic opportunities for them? Advancements they haven't merited, on the basis of family connections.

nauticant · 10/06/2024 19:07

The past few weeks have seen evidence provided by those at the top of Post Office.

This week the focus shifts and we get to hear from some dodgy lawyers:

Tuesday 11 June
Anthony de Garr Robinson KC - Barrister
Lord Grabiner KC - Barrister

Wednesday 12 June
Tom Beezer - Partner at Womble Bond Dickinson (UK) LLP
Matthew Lenton - Document Manager, Post Office Account, at Fujitsu Services Ltd

Thursday 13 June
Andrew Parsons - Partner at Womble Bond Dickinson (UK) LLP

Friday 14 June
Andrew Parsons - Partner at Womble Bond Dickinson (UK) LLP

Grabiner played a key role in trying to derail the High Court litigation by the subpostmasters by trying, but failing, to get Justice Fraser thrown off the case because he wouldn't do what Post Office wanted him to do.

The Womble Bond Dickinson lawyers will be asked about their conduct and the conduct of their firm during that litigation. Spoiler: it was shameful.

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minou123 · 10/06/2024 20:11

Thank you for the reminder @nauticant

Womble Bond Dickinson certainly have not come out well in the inquiry based on the emails and meeting notes we've seen so far.
But if you remember, we have already had a taster from a partner at WBD, Stephen Dilley.
If you dont have time to go back and watch his evidence, here is Nick Wallis summary of what happened. It is a very fair and accurate summary of Stephen Dilley was like at the inquiry.
https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/nothing-personal-mr-castleton-its-just-justice/

I have a horrible feeling it will be the same from Andrew Parsons.

The person I am interested in is Lord Grabiner KC, tomorrow - who was involved in the decision to recuse the Judge in the GLO.
Through some googling, and correct me if I'm wrong, he is a Lord because he is in the House of Lords, is that right?
Questions I have are:
How the hell did he get involved in the PO litigation?
Why did he get involved?
Is he going to blame Paula, the PO for lying to him?
How much responsibility is he going to take for his role in this shit show?

Nothing personal, Mr Castleton. It’s just justice…

Stephen Dilley giving evidence at the Inquiry today Today, Stephen Dilley, a partner at Womble Bond Dickinson, gave evidence to the Post Office Horizon IT Inquiry. Womble have a long and inglorious…

https://www.postofficescandal.uk/post/nothing-personal-mr-castleton-its-just-justice

nauticant · 10/06/2024 20:25

He'll have been elevated to the Lords as recognition for a long and distinguished legal career as a barrister.

He was (and still is) continuing to practice as a barrister (KC) and was retained by Post Office to work for them in the GLO litigation.

He'll have got involved because Post Office needed heavy-duty legal names that they hoped would carry more weight in seeking to push the boundaries. Remember the other KC they retained, Brian Altman, who was seemingly appointed because of his contacts and that they hoped they'd get more leverage from that?

He won't blame Vennells but he might blame Jane (AWOL) MacLeod.

I don't expect him to accept much, if any, blame. He'll have been operating within normal professional boundaries, blah blah blah.

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