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Original poster

School attendance - is this allowed?

270 replies

UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 15:18

My DD is in Y7 at mainstream secondary and is autistic and very anxious.

HOY keeps chopping and changing plans for my DD with no consistency or communication. Essentially, on my side of it school are just making things worse.

As an example today there is a Reward Trip for those with over 100 achievement points and less than 8 behaviour points. My DD has 130 achievement points and 0 behaviour points but has been excluded from the trip as they felt they would need to send an LSA which they didn't want to. At our last meeting I expressed how unhappy and left out she was feeling as all her friends are going on the trip and naturally excitedly chatting about it at school as well as out of school. I was told by her HOY that they were planning a Reward Day at school for those who met the criteria but couldn't go on the trip for whatever reason. I've been asking for information about this but only been informed this morning that they decided to not do the Reward Day in the end!!

Her HOY has now decided to implement a new plan - I've not agreed with any of it as I find it inappropriate but the specific thing I wanted to ask about is his plan for me to bring DD in the morning and if they can't get her into school within 5 minutes I have to take her home. Presumably if I bring her in they can mark her as in on their attendance figures, but don't have to bother with giving her an education. Apparently I should then bring her back for afternoon school and if they can't get her in within 5 minutes I have to take her home again! So their attendance looks great but my DD gets no education. Is this allowed?

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:06

ageratum1 · 23/05/2024 15:54

The school trip, I understand, but they should have done something else for her instead.
I don't understand the 5 minute thing.How does that help their attendance figures mote than if she goes home?

The thing about the school trip is I don't think she would have needed an LSA anyway. But I'll be ensuring she is included on the Y8 trip one way or another. But to say they were going to do something fun and then let her down last minute has made me so angry!

So if she comes into school they can mark her as in school on the register. After that point if she goes home it doesn't affect their attendance figures for that session.

OP posts:
FacingTheWall · 23/05/2024 16:08

No, none of what they’re doing is allowed. They’re trampling all over their equality and disability duties. Make a fuss.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:08

BrumToTheRescue · 23/05/2024 15:55

Have you followed up all the verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail.?

Have you formally complained about the trip? It is disability discrimination.

Request an EHCNA yourself. The legal threshold is a) has or may have SEN, and b) may need SEN provision to be made via an EHCP. You didn’t need to wait for a diagnosis and don’t listen to the school trying to put you off.

Be careful with SENDIASS. Some are good but too many repeat the LA’s unlawful policies. IPSEA and SOSSEN are better.

If DD can’t attend school full-time is the LA making suitable alternative provision to ensure she still receives a suitable full-time education?

No, I've not done a paper trail.

And I've not complained about the trip.

LA made no provision but I have a meeting with them next month.

Thank you for the advice.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:10

TheSnowyOwl · 23/05/2024 16:03

I’m sorry. Being a parent can be difficult enough, let alone when neurodivergent behaviour and school are included. I’d speak with the sen support or senco and definitely start the EHCP process. There are good Facebook groups about EHCPs that should be able to help you.

I’d also look at lodging a complaint with regards to the school excluding your daughter and the HOY. This will be important evidence to show that the school cannot support your daughter and an EHCP is needed.

Good luck. Look around for any local parent support groups as well as there can be a wealth of knowledge and understanding there.

Thank you for your advice I will do so.

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:12

TheSnowyOwl · 23/05/2024 16:03

That doesn’t mean it’s best for her sen. I have two (diagnosed) but likely three sen children and their needs and what suits them are vastly different.

Show quote history

I'm aware of that, I have an older DC with autism too.

It is the only school in the area that I believe can meet her needs. The SEN department is really good. The HOY just likes to over ride them. He has a DD with autism so thinks he's a bit of an expert.

OP posts:
BrumToTheRescue · 23/05/2024 16:14

Start following up verbal conversations with emails so you have a paper trail as evidence.

Formally complain about the trip.

IPSEA has a model letter you can use to request alternative provision from the LA. Do this alongside requesting an EHCNA.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:16

Seashor · 23/05/2024 16:06

I don’t think it’s up to school to get her into school, I think that’s down to you. As far as the trip is concerned if it isn’t suitable for your daughter as outlined on a risk assessment then I can’t see that they are discriminating. They have said that they will be offering an alternative that is suitable. I’ve not taken pupils before for all types of reasons. If it’s my signature on that risk assessment and I can’t manage a ‘risk’ then it isn’t happening.

Well, I physically get her into school, should I be taking her to her lessons too?

They only had to take an LSA,on the trip for her to go, not that I believe she needed one. I would have gone if need be. Risk could have been managed.

You've clearly not read my post. They have not provided an alternative!

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:18

BrumToTheRescue · 23/05/2024 16:06

My only other option is Home Ed.

Don’t deregister! You do not have to EHE. If school isn’t appropriate there are other options. You don’t have to home ed.

What other options?

OP posts:
naggynora · 23/05/2024 16:18

Seashor · 23/05/2024 16:06

I don’t think it’s up to school to get her into school, I think that’s down to you. As far as the trip is concerned if it isn’t suitable for your daughter as outlined on a risk assessment then I can’t see that they are discriminating. They have said that they will be offering an alternative that is suitable. I’ve not taken pupils before for all types of reasons. If it’s my signature on that risk assessment and I can’t manage a ‘risk’ then it isn’t happening.

Except that this is discriminatory in itself. Education is for all pupils, not just those who are non-disabled. The law requires schools to ensure all lessons, physical characteristics and information is accessible for disabled pupils throughout the life of the school. This includes before/after school clubs and school trips and any other activity. It is not optional to opt out of the statutory obligations schools have

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:20

naggynora · 23/05/2024 16:18

Except that this is discriminatory in itself. Education is for all pupils, not just those who are non-disabled. The law requires schools to ensure all lessons, physical characteristics and information is accessible for disabled pupils throughout the life of the school. This includes before/after school clubs and school trips and any other activity. It is not optional to opt out of the statutory obligations schools have

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Thank you, that's very informative. I think I've been a bit naive.

OP posts:
BrumToTheRescue · 23/05/2024 16:23

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in any school there is EOTAS.

If state mainstream isn’t appropriate but other types of schools e.g. specialist school or independent mainstream are then they can be possible.

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:26

BrumToTheRescue · 23/05/2024 16:23

If it is inappropriate for provision to be made in any school there is EOTAS.

If state mainstream isn’t appropriate but other types of schools e.g. specialist school or independent mainstream are then they can be possible.

Ok, thank you for the information.

I think this school should be fine for her. I've only had problems where the HOY is involved.

OP posts:
LottieMary · 23/05/2024 16:27

UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 15:31

No, she hasn't. She got her autism diagnosis in January this year. School said she doesn't need/won't get an EHCP as they can meet her needs.

Show quote history

They’re not meeting her needs. As a teacher this is horrific and discriminatory; if she met the trip criteria she should be going with whatever accommodations needed. We have - if students deemed a flight risk- asked for parental accompaniment for example.

the attendance thing is ridiculous. Your daughter is entitled to an education

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:28

If I want to make a complaint about the HOY and also the trip do I complain to the school or to the governors?

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:30

LottieMary · 23/05/2024 16:27

They’re not meeting her needs. As a teacher this is horrific and discriminatory; if she met the trip criteria she should be going with whatever accommodations needed. We have - if students deemed a flight risk- asked for parental accompaniment for example.

the attendance thing is ridiculous. Your daughter is entitled to an education

Show quote history

Thank you. I've felt so sad for her. All her friends are going and she is left out 😞 I would absolutely have gone if that meant she could go.

OP posts:
Pennyandolive · 23/05/2024 16:30

GrannyAchingsShepherdsHut · 23/05/2024 15:38

They clearly can't meet her needs if she's not allowed to join trips because she needs a dedicated staff member that they can't provide, and they want you to take her home if they can't get her into school in 5 minutes.

That's pretty much the definition of not meeting her needs, surely?!

I'd be saying the words 'discrimination based on her disability' loudly, often, and in writing OP. Let them know you're not going to blithely accept them excluding her because she's disabled.

I second this.

handmademitlove · 23/05/2024 16:35

Look on the school website for the complaints procedure - often submitting a formal complaint to the school, then governors if you are not satisfied with the school response.

Follow up every conversation with an email - even if just "DD came into school this morning but as she was dysregulated I was asked to take her home, what is the school policy on this?". A paper trail is very important, and if as you suggest the rest of the school are mostly helpful, cc the Sendco or other senior leader in as they will then be more aware of what is happening.

Hopefully raising the profile of what this one member of staff is doing will allow others to step in and deal with it on your behalf!

T1Dmama · 23/05/2024 16:37

UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 15:31

No, she hasn't. She got her autism diagnosis in January this year. School said she doesn't need/won't get an EHCP as they can meet her needs.

Show quote history

This trip and the fact they could facilitate her attending proves otherwise!
You need to apply for an EHCP yourself through the local council. School don’t need to be involved or give permission for you to apply and start giving evidence.
The new plan that you have to have her in within 5 minutes or she doesn’t go in also evidences that they can’t support her, they should be enabling her to go in, not just sending you away with her.
How stressful for her going back and forth, I would be refusing to take her home and putting in an official complaint about her exclusion from both school and from the trip. If school can not facilitate children with disabilities then the trip does not go ahead for anyone… it really is that simple! Anything else is disability discrimination!
official complaint (marked as such!) and quote disability laws (disability act 2010 and the families act).
What they are doing is illegal!
Please apply for an EHCP ASAP!!

T1Dmama · 23/05/2024 16:39

couldn’t facilitate sorry!

Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:45

handmademitlove · 23/05/2024 16:35

Look on the school website for the complaints procedure - often submitting a formal complaint to the school, then governors if you are not satisfied with the school response.

Follow up every conversation with an email - even if just "DD came into school this morning but as she was dysregulated I was asked to take her home, what is the school policy on this?". A paper trail is very important, and if as you suggest the rest of the school are mostly helpful, cc the Sendco or other senior leader in as they will then be more aware of what is happening.

Hopefully raising the profile of what this one member of staff is doing will allow others to step in and deal with it on your behalf!

I do have in writing (email) the HOYs latest plan detailing the 5 minute thing.

Another part of the plan is that my 17yo DS should bring her in (as he feels it is better for 'mum to say goodbye at home.') even though obviously he is not her parent and it is not his job to get her into school. He has brought her in a few times as I was unwell and found it really stressful. Not to mention he has college to get to and exams. I think it was just that the first time he brought her in she went in ok and the HOY has ceased on it. She goes in fine when I take her in a proportion of the time too!

OP posts:
Original poster
UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:46

T1Dmama · 23/05/2024 16:37

This trip and the fact they could facilitate her attending proves otherwise!
You need to apply for an EHCP yourself through the local council. School don’t need to be involved or give permission for you to apply and start giving evidence.
The new plan that you have to have her in within 5 minutes or she doesn’t go in also evidences that they can’t support her, they should be enabling her to go in, not just sending you away with her.
How stressful for her going back and forth, I would be refusing to take her home and putting in an official complaint about her exclusion from both school and from the trip. If school can not facilitate children with disabilities then the trip does not go ahead for anyone… it really is that simple! Anything else is disability discrimination!
official complaint (marked as such!) and quote disability laws (disability act 2010 and the families act).
What they are doing is illegal!
Please apply for an EHCP ASAP!!

Show quote history

Thank you, I will do!

OP posts:
Love51 · 23/05/2024 16:54

UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 15:57

Thank you, I will do.

Aside from this HOY I've actually found the SEN department to be really good. He just likes to interfere. So I'll speak to the SEN department we'll have a plan in place and then he gets involved and over rides it. To be honest this is the only school in our area that I believe could meet her needs. My only other option is Home Ed.

I have an appointment with the attendance and welfare officer and LEA next month so was going to bring it up there.

I've had a row with the HOY on the phone this morning and made it very clear I don't want him involved in plans for my DD anymore. The attendance/welfare lady has stepped in now. We'll see how that goes.

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You can be proactive and contact the local authority inclusion staff yourself. I would in these circumstances. Especially I'd mention the trip and the fact that you need one named contact at school, whoever in the SEN team you find helpful, not HoY. They will probably go for that, it is an easily achievable idea to put on a plan.

T1Dmama · 23/05/2024 16:56

UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 16:06

The thing about the school trip is I don't think she would have needed an LSA anyway. But I'll be ensuring she is included on the Y8 trip one way or another. But to say they were going to do something fun and then let her down last minute has made me so angry!

So if she comes into school they can mark her as in school on the register. After that point if she goes home it doesn't affect their attendance figures for that session.

Show quote history

I’d be forwarding this email to the head teacher and stating that this is manipulation of attendance figures and denying your DD an education that she is legally entitled to.
The school trip is absolutely disability discrimination and by not allowing her to attend they’ve broken the law!

Onlinemum22 · 23/05/2024 16:59

UndertheCedartree · 23/05/2024 15:31

No, she hasn't. She got her autism diagnosis in January this year. School said she doesn't need/won't get an EHCP as they can meet her needs.

Show quote history

Get an EHCP.
Without one they can pretend to cater for her under 'Ordinary Provision' and are not legally required to give her the right support.
With an EHCP they are forced to pay for her 1:1 and any additional support required.

They are doing this to avoid spending money.