To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

How will it do that? The root cause of a lot of it is crap parenting.

It's a big issue for those involved, and if it doesn't matter to you then move on by (like nub theory or name my kitten and a dozen other posts that do not interest me at all).
It may also be of some interest to parents of state school kids that are near an area of middling independent schools, as they are likely to see pressure on the state school provision if the VAT on private education comes to pass.
However, I think it's unlikely, as there's an EU law against taxing education that is still part of UK legislation, so that would have to be removed first. It's complicated, and I don't think they can separate out independent schools from adult education and special needs education that incurs a fee.

PEPF say 17%

And until they fix this people won’t want to teach and the classrooms will be substandard

Overtime should be paid for juniors, but rarely is implemented properly. We consultants do not get paid overtime.

Ironically having my children in a private school with full wraparound care from 7.30-6pm is what allows me to work the number of sessions I currently do. Having them in any of the local states which vary between not enough wraparound spaces/not enough demand so wraparound is not financially viable/wraparound cancelled at last minute because of difficulties would mean I could not continue to work in the role I do now.

I do no private practice myself but don't find it remotely difficult to comprehend why my highly skilled colleagues who have dedicated many many hours of unpaid work over the years would now like to work privately in a pleasant environment rather than be run off their feet in the NHS

Many children are not thriving in schools. Huge mental health crisis. Attendance issues, behavioural problems. Many teachers/support staff aren’t thriving in schools either, hence the retention crisis

https://www.centreforsocialjustice.org.uk/newsroom/school-suspensions-hit-record-levels#:~:text=The%20data%20shows%20that%20there,(Spring%202021%2F22).

@mondaytosunday Sure it is an issue for some rich people that they may have to pay more. But why post about it? Why should anyone else care?

Overtime should be paid for juniors, but rarely is implemented properly. We consultants do not get paid overtime.

Precisely. And the Labour plan is explicit that the overtime required to bring down waiting lists will be paid.

But the policy will make Private schools even less diverse.

Labours policy will therefore do the opposite

As are mine with SEN. Who would have thought!

Crap parenting among 95% of the population who have children in state school. That's what you are going with?

I can't think what the benefits of staying are. For the love of the country? If you are getting shafted in every way possible why stay. I can run my business in a country with no or less tax, sunshine, free university, better healthcare etc.

For the first time in years I am considering a move abroad again.

I’m not sure I understand this. What’s diversity got to do with it?

Your lack of experience with the NHS is really showing.

Pre-2010 when we had a labour government and I was still a junior doctor, we were also told overtime will be paid. Funnily enough, it rarely was so this policy fills me with very little hope.

When I googled those were the figures for English schools, I was looking at UK which came up as 0.6%. Actually every site I looked at gives a different figure but it does look like more children are in fee paying schools in England than the rest of the UK. Either way numbers are dropping, not all the fee paying pupils will move so I can't see it being that big an issue, parents are likely to swallow it for older pupils and the spaces are coming up with the younger children.

I struggle to understand why people who don’t use private schools would particularly care about them becoming more ‘exclusive’ than they already are.

Those sending their children there presumably take the view that it’s acceptable for there to be a price barrier to what they view as a better education, which is ultimately set by market rates (and in this case, tax policy) and not by how much nice parents who don’t go on holiday can save up, and that some people won’t be able to benefit from this. They just think they should continue to be on the right side of the line, which is understandable on a personal level. However, I can’t see how it makes a particular difference to those who are already on the wrong side or simply choose not to use those schools?

There’s a lot of interconnected issues I’d expect people to care about (in particular, differences in outcome) but that argument in isolation isn’t one.

edit: forgot a sentence

@Blossomtoes According to the IFS (the same body everyone is relying on for their VAT on school fees information), it’s 18%.

I’m aware it’s against the current law to tax education
So, any intel from Labour on how they intend to do it straight away.
I haven’t seen anything.

I agree, people generally aren’t bothered about VAT on private school places because it only affects a minority.

True

Yes exactly.
My kids have left school and we are finishing off the house and leaving too.
Its not just the tax it’s the ‘divide and rule’ fallout.

True Labour have not gone into great detail how they will recruit 6,500 more teachers, but have given an outline. Years of cuts in public services and resulting mess will not be reversed quickly, especially when economy weak. Investment in public services vital though to build economic growth. Advanced economies like the UK after WWII had much higher levels of debt to GDP than we do today, and spent big on public investment, good economic growth followed.

Agree with shadow education secretary Bridget Phillipson’s comment below they have to start from somewhere:

“Labour has previously said the 6,500 figure is based on what they could afford from the private school VAT cash. Labour has promised £350 million to fund the pledge.

When challenged on what the plan is, shadow education secretary Bridget Phillipson said last year that she wanted to make teaching “a more attractive place to be…that’s the starting point”.

She added the relationship between the government and education had to be reset, as did the message that government could send about the value of education – “and that teachers have a role to play in shaping that national mission”.
This was “not the entire answer” but “we have to start somewhere”.

‘Speaking prior to Starmer today, Phillipson added that “nowhere is the need for change more stark than in our schools”.

“Schools are literally crumbling around the next generation”, she said, adding that one in five children are “regularly not in class” and “thousands of lessons every week are taught by teachers not experts in their subjects”.

“It will be up to labour to turn the tide after the Conservatives failed a generation,” she added. The “future we want to build” is one with “qualified, supported, expert teachers in every classroom”.

It’s probably why Blair avoided going there. He knew he needed people onside to pay for stuff.

18% at A-Level is just bigging up the figures. It's 7 percent for the first 11 years. 18% is only for the last 2.

Private schools will become only available to the very wealthy.
Currently there are plenty that are not and work very hard paying each month for the fees.