To think that those private school parents banging on about their fees

[Thegreatergoodgerald]

Seriously have misjudged how little anyone else gives a stuff??? NHS, social care, state education, public transport, bloody potholes everywhere - that’s what matters to everyone I know.
Not whether or not VAT is added to a business.

YANBU - it’s hardly the end of the world if Clemmie or Charles end up going to a state school. We have bigger things to worry about in the U.K. right now

YABU - of course everyone cares private school parents might have to pay more

@LilacK not in many classes in Secondary it isn’t. They are currently having to manage a bulge. Primaries are feeling the impact but that is in Early Years and KS1

Depends where you are but house prices mean wealthy people get the best state places already here

So more of that

Yes, one or two. But that is not a strong enough, or lasting reason to claim that the state system won't cope.

'let me have more financial privilege or I'm going to come and make the poor people's lives worse.'

‘normal kids’? My DC and my nieces and nephews are all ‘normal kids’, pretty presumptuous to think that state school kids will have to make way the private school kids due to their superior intelligence. My DS was literally tutoring my DN (at private school) on Maths questions for GCSE last year, my DS was more advanced in a few subjects despite not having the advantage of a private education. Guess what, they are all applying for same RG unis, this is despite attending a state 6th college, which incidentally has seen 54 students offered Oxbridge places this year! Intelligent kids exist in state education in spite of the lack of advantage, you’d be foolish to think otherwise. If the students are having to leave private school they will be competing for places with these students, who in many cases have achieved their grades without much help at all(I only know one person who used a tutor and that was because of some entrance exams for private school)My DS’s friend has been offered a place at Oxford to study Maths, he’s on FSM and he is not well off by any stretch of the imagination so no tutors, he is the kind of person that just ‘does maths’, he hardly puts any effort in at all, that’s what these pupils will be competing with so it won’t be a walk in the park. Where I live it doesn’t matter about postcodes as lottery system.

‘Let me make your childs education worse or you’re a bigot’

Well you clearly feel you want to spend your time on the issue? People who are paying fees....I get why its occupying their minds - but just why you want to invest time on it is a mystery.
This change will not affect us - but we did pull our daughter out of a free grammar school because her newly diagnosed SEN needs meant how the school was treating her was traumatising her. Our only option was a private school because while there were no local places at our local comp anyway - such a massive school with 300 each year group was no good for her anyway....So I will fight and argue for the normal families who dig deep for their SEN needs kids to go private because the system does not cater for them. And don't try and tell me that the government will support these kids who need smaller classes sizes - because they won't. No government in the world does.

What do you expect them to do instead? Magic an extra few £k up when they've already stretched themselves to pay the current fees? Quit their jobs and home educate? If you remove the option of private school from people who can currently afford private school, they will be taking a place at state school.

And the ~£15kpa they are no longer spending will be enough to make sure they can move really close to the oversubscribed outstanding schools, which usually have "closest distance as the crow flies" in their application process.

My son went to an independent school and I was on full tax credits at the time.

Some parents send their kids to these schools because they’re desperate to find a better environment for their children and they’re scrounging money from family to do so. Small independent schools (I have experience of two) were so much better for us.

@BIossomtoes that school is looking at selling off some of its land to help boost its finances. If impacted by falling pupil numbers might sell more, so will have less spare playing fields as their ow pupils will be using them. Might not be able to afford to transport the pupils. Less staff to be available to offer days in their science block.

You’re nice aren’t you! I have had to pull my ASD child out of state school due to daily assault that the school (in Scotland) were utterly powerless to address. My child goes to a private school with small classes and robust behaviour policies. I am happy to pay VAT.

I would like to point out that since removing my child I have used our experience to harness MSP’s to drive change. No child should have to move schools due to the inability of schools to control behaviour. It’s a long road but I hope we will get to a stage where all pupils in Scotland have access to a supportive school environment.

Well now you know how it will impact behaviour don’t be surprised when house prices go up around top schools

It won’t be the case for all schools, but for some for sure

Can you not tell the difference between an argument and a likely consequence?

That wasn't our experience tbf. Dc are doing very well academically and there are no issues with the EHCP but regardless that wasn't the point you made.

Many children with SEN are highly intelligent and some benefit from being challenged academically. So your comment asking why they would benefit seems to suggest a lack of understanding.

I think the point is not all families who send their kid with SEN needs to a private school are wealthy - they sacrifice, borrow money off their house and relatives etc.

Just one example of applicants vs places..

https://www.lbhf.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2024-03/secondary-school-allocations-places-2024.pdf

“we aren’t suddenly going to see 45 kids in a primary school class!”

Wrong!

My friend’s daughter has 42 children in her primary school class (SE England). There’s a 30 pupil limit for KS1, but no limit above that.

Exactly. The policy will do this so do you want that or not?

People will use funds for better state

I am not sure if that is a financially savvy decision, not buying a house for a private education!

You don’t need most to be affected for this policy to have negative financial impact- all it takes is a 10% reduction for the policy to make zero revenue. Given there has been a 3% drop this year already based on the mere possibility of this being enacted, I would be very concerned that this will cost more than it takes.

Trust me, it is. You just have to do the ROI calculations.

Just an example

One school 940 applicants 130 places

The only impact on teachers is that their private school staff jobs are at risk. Those teachers can be employed elsewhere in the education sector, for the most part

Teachers are not the only people who work in independent schools. And unfortunately, I think many will leave altogether rather than go into the state sector. Not all, but a good portion. I have been in private for 10 years now and there is no way I would go back to the state sector, even to do supply.

That table says nothing about over or undercapacity. It only tells you that those schools were oversubscribed.

You were very fortunate to have a school willing to do that. The majority of children with EHCPs are working significantly behind age-related expectations and need a lot of support to access mainstream education, let alone the often more rigorous standards at private schools. I have taken many parents through the process when I was teaching myself and if I had £1 for every time I went to a SENCO and said, "This child, who is well behaved and achieving at ARE, needs SEN support, the parents are also concerned," and got practically laughed out of the office, I'd be easily able to afford private school.

Suggesting that private schools take children on with EHCPs when in fact many take a lot of children with SEN but who have been unable to get EHCPs isn't inclusive. It's just continuing to further draw the divide between the parents who were tenacious enough and lucky enough to be able to secure EHCPs and those that couldn't.

We looked around a local private school for my daughter. It is academically selective. 70% of the children are ND and many parents have picked that school (very small and high pastoral care) specifically because of that. Many of them will now be forced out. I don't know if my daughter is NT but she struggles in loud and busy environments so the small classes would have been a big benefit to her.

We did not choose that school because we could only have JUST afforded the fees (on a combined income of £70kpa, so hardly Elon Musk) and we didn't want to have to withdraw her and unsettle her if the fees rose. That's £98k that the tax payer will be covering.