Page 3 | To think I shouldn't have to justify my annual leave to my manager?

Bubblegumtea · 2024-05-22T11:58:09+00:00

Or anyone for that matter. I'm moving house and I had booked leave because I have some routine health appointments this week ( nothing work needs to know about ) and I didn't want any more medical appointments or sick pay to show on my payslips after I was ill in the new year as I know the mortgage companies look at these from when my mum had to supply loads more than the usual three to her work after she had a hysterectomy, just to confirm she was back at work basically and earning. Anyway, I've not made any mention of this at work and taken annual leave instead to cover these appointments to ensure I don't have any sick pay or anything showing up on my payslips and my god, the amount of people asking why I'm on leave this week ( this is fine if it's normal 'got any plans?' sort of chat ) and when I don't want to lie but also don't mention said appointments and say oh I just want to relax etc I get loads of responses 'you'll waste your leave', 'no point taking it', 'you are the worst for taking leave when you don't need to'... erm shutup? You have no idea what I'm taking leave for and it's none of your business. My manager even suggested I cancel it! I'm a part of a big team we, quite a lot of responsibility on me but we all do a similar job on the whole so no major impact by me being off. Aibu or is what someone does with their annual leave none of anyone's business? I never pry over colleagues lives like this! Yanbu - none of their business Yabu - they own your time outside of work aswell as inside of it

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 27/05/2024 08:54

‘Mostly relaxing plus a few things that need doing.’

Fairyliz · 27/05/2024 09:09

Sounds like normal chit chat to me.
How would you feel if you were having a week off to go away and absolutely no one asked you what you were doing or said have a good time.
Wouldn’t that actually feel quite sad that no one was bothered?

NotAgainWilson · 27/05/2024 09:22

Frankly… I think you should just ignore and forget about the comments.

I would be very surprised if they even cared a bit about what you do with your leave, I bet they would be shocked to hear you are taking offence at what is clearly just office chit chat.

LottieMary · 27/05/2024 09:25

I see why it’s be seen as rude hut is prob be in that camp as I feel like taking annual leave to just be at home is a total waste! I’m a planner 😂

WimbyAce · 27/05/2024 09:29

HelenaWaiting · 27/05/2024 00:53

I take two weeks off every Wimbledon when I just watch tennis the whole time. Leave is leave. It's no one's business what you do with it. If anyone asks I tell them "I'm off for a dirty fortnight with Hugh Jackman".

Haha I used to do the 2 Wimbledon weeks too before kids! Mine is usually something to do with the kids these days. I think it's normal office chat to ask what people are up to. If there's ever mysterious time off we normally assume an interview 😅

theholesinmyapologies · 27/05/2024 09:36

NoPowerInTheVerse · 27/05/2024 07:46

I hear you. I work in the NHS where that stupid bloody Bradford score has made life incredibly difficult for at least the last 20 years. (This is the one where three absences in a rolling year triggers questioning, it has us all terrified to be off even when we are really sick as it can trigger dismissal and several people in my department are sole breadwinners.) University of Bradford denies all knowledge of ever having come up with it, I was once asked to track down the origin and had to give up.

We also have a new manager who has made it clear from the start that all annual leave requests will be scrutinised and debated in management meetings before being granted. I have some medical tests I am entitled to under Trust policy as they are to help manage a long term condition and I am having to justify every request with the appropriate policy.

From now on I'll be asking the specialist if they can make sure they send me confirmation of appointments as that will be next (manager can ask for this under the policy to be fair but my last Trust had a higher level of trust in its staff. This one has been quite a shock and I'm not sure how long I'll last).

New manager is keen to not only know everything people are doing but encourage others to question intrusively. I'm actually missing my last place of work where at least my manager knew the policies and abided by them. We also had a brilliant Equality and Diversity group that was excellent at supporting staff and WFH was much better supported. I do think this Trust is on dodgy legal ground in a few areas so am brushing up on my law.

It's all a bad joke when you have a long term health condition or disability, especially in the wake of COVID and all the vaccines so close together. No wonder the NHS is haemorrhaging staff.

That's shocking. And disgusting treatment of hardworking staff.

No wonder people are quitting the NHS in droves, too.

Willtheraineverstop · 27/05/2024 09:48

110APiccadilly · 27/05/2024 06:05

Who are these people you work with who think just relaxing is a waste of your leave?!

I'd very happily have a week off and do nothing.

Exactly! It's the perfect time to recharge and rest

FretfulPorpentine · 27/05/2024 09:54

LottieMary · 27/05/2024 09:25

I see why it’s be seen as rude hut is prob be in that camp as I feel like taking annual leave to just be at home is a total waste! I’m a planner 😂

I'm a planner too. I sometimes plan to take annual leave and spend a day at home.

greenpolarbear · 27/05/2024 10:03

Bubblegumtea · 22/05/2024 18:14

Same it's something I have been worrying about though as I had several operations which were all sick pay beyond my control and they showed up as sick pay. I'm not sure if an appt would've done but if I'd queried it they'd have given me a day off to get my appt sorted ( well actually two days ) and I didn't want to risk it.

Show quote history

If it's less than 3 days they have to pay you in full, not sick pay.

Rosscameasdoody · 27/05/2024 10:28

OP, do you have a health condition which would qualify as a disability under the Equality Act 2010 ? It’s absolutely not compulsory to declare a disability to an employer but since it’s specifically time off sick and medical appointments that are the issue, you may benefit.

Under the terms of the Act employers have to make ‘reasonable adjustment’ for disabled employees and one of the things they have to look at is whether you are being disadvantaged by sick leave/medical appointments connected with your condition. Any sick days you take which are directly attributable to your condition are defined as ‘disability leave’ and don’t count towards the normal disciplinary actions taken as a result of sick leave. Same with hospital appointments.

If you’re worried about the impact on mortgage applications etc, this could be another way to go as the records would show that the sick leave is warranted and not for frivolous reasons. Just a thought and below is a link to the definition of disability under the Act

https://www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010#:~:text=You're%20disabled%20under%20the,to%20do%20normal%20daily%20activities.

Definition of disability under the Equality Act 2010

You’re disabled under the Equality Act 2010 if you have a physical or mental impairment that has a 'substantial' and 'long-term' negative effect on your ability to do daily activities

https://www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010#:~:text=You're%20disabled%20under%20the,to%20do%20normal%20daily%20activities.

Rosscameasdoody · 27/05/2024 10:39

NoPowerInTheVerse · 27/05/2024 07:46

I hear you. I work in the NHS where that stupid bloody Bradford score has made life incredibly difficult for at least the last 20 years. (This is the one where three absences in a rolling year triggers questioning, it has us all terrified to be off even when we are really sick as it can trigger dismissal and several people in my department are sole breadwinners.) University of Bradford denies all knowledge of ever having come up with it, I was once asked to track down the origin and had to give up.

We also have a new manager who has made it clear from the start that all annual leave requests will be scrutinised and debated in management meetings before being granted. I have some medical tests I am entitled to under Trust policy as they are to help manage a long term condition and I am having to justify every request with the appropriate policy.

From now on I'll be asking the specialist if they can make sure they send me confirmation of appointments as that will be next (manager can ask for this under the policy to be fair but my last Trust had a higher level of trust in its staff. This one has been quite a shock and I'm not sure how long I'll last).

New manager is keen to not only know everything people are doing but encourage others to question intrusively. I'm actually missing my last place of work where at least my manager knew the policies and abided by them. We also had a brilliant Equality and Diversity group that was excellent at supporting staff and WFH was much better supported. I do think this Trust is on dodgy legal ground in a few areas so am brushing up on my law.

It's all a bad joke when you have a long term health condition or disability, especially in the wake of COVID and all the vaccines so close together. No wonder the NHS is haemorrhaging staff.

If you have a health condition which qualifies as a disability under the Equality Act 2010 thy could well be breaking the law in their treatment of you. Below is th modified content of my earlier reply to the OP. You might find it useful. Please PM me if you need any more info, but you really do need to know if you qualify as disabled under the Act, and, that being the case, you need to know your rights.

If you have a condition which would qualify as a disability under the Equality Act 2010, although not compulsory to declare to an employer, but you may benefit from doing so if your ability to take reasonable sick leave is affected by policy.

Under the terms of the Act employers have to make ‘reasonable adjustment’ for disabled employees and one of the things they have to look at is whether you are being disadvantaged by sick leave/medical appointments connected with your condition. Any sick days you take which are directly attributable to your condition are defined as ‘disability leave’ and don’t count towards the normal disciplinary actions taken as a result of sick leave. Same with hospital or other medical appointments.

Below is a link to the definition of disability under the Act

www.gov.uk/definition-of-disability-under-equality-act-2010#:~:text=You're%20disabled%20under%20the,to%20do%20normal%20daily%20activities.

mitogoshi · 27/05/2024 10:43

The problem with being elusive is that people smell a rat - they may suspect you are interviewing for another job!

Better is to tell a white lie and say you have friends in town, or have some family things to do and fancied a break

Comefromaway · 27/05/2024 10:48

greenpolarbear · 27/05/2024 10:03

If it's less than 3 days they have to pay you in full, not sick pay.

Show quote history

Unless someone is contractually entitled to time off for medical appointments they don’t have to pay anything. Which is why a lot of people either make up the time or take a day holiday.

AncillaryMercy · 27/05/2024 11:34

In my work conversations about leave are polite. I'd expect to be asked 'what are you up to?' and 'did you do anything nice?'.

As it goes, my last I was involved in sorting out a sad family matter. It wasn't nice at all. I didn't feel the need to say anything. Maybe my work culture is more respectful than yours. No-one would say my leave was wasted.

user1469095927 · 27/05/2024 11:38

That's bonkers - what is special to one person might not be to another. Sometimes you need time just to sort things around the house without kids getting in the way. Not everyone can afford to spend loads of money on "something special". Your leave is your leave regardless!

Rosebel · 27/05/2024 11:46

I'm on A/L next week. Last week my manager asked if I really wanted the time off when I'm leaving in July
Er yes I really do. It's my first A/L this year and the only thing likely to get me through to July!
In regards to your colleagues just tell them you haven't decided what you're going to do but will probably have some day trips (so technically not lying).

CuttingMeOpenthenHealingMeFine · 27/05/2024 11:53

Your colleagues are rude! If someone in my team has annual leave booked I might say something like ‘oh are you doing something nice?’ Just to be polite. If they were a bit elusive I wouldn’t pry any further because it’s none of my business and I don’t particularly care.

MikeRafone · 27/05/2024 11:57

Why didn't you just say

its personal appointments that I don't wish to discuss with anyone

DPotter · 27/05/2024 12:13

Samantha Jones from SITC, had a wonderful line in telling someone off for trying to contact her, something to the effect

Why are you trying to contact me - you knew I was taking the afternoon off to masturbate.

Maybe try something like this.......?

caringcarer · 27/05/2024 12:16

Tagyoureit · 22/05/2024 13:26

So why not just say you've lots to do around the house, freshen it up for the sale/decluttering/packing/banking stuff. Everyone knows what a pain in the arse that it.

You seem to have created a little drama all on your own by not mentioning the medical stuff, which of course you don't have to, but give a firmer answer and you'll less likely be spoken to about it again.

This. I'd say you have to sort out your house prior to your move

FredaFox · 27/05/2024 12:21

please use paragraphs I had to read it twice
it's normal work chat

FloraDorah · 27/05/2024 12:25

Always say you are going away unless you want them ringing you at home trying to get you in or someone else trying to get your holiday from you. It always starts with what are you doing in your time off. Testing the water. Now I always say I'm going away . It stops any fishing .

Abeona · 27/05/2024 12:35

Why would you not just say 'I have a few things going on that I need to be at home for. Just boring stuff' and leave it there. It's not a lie and there's no need to elaborate. People will assume you've got a workman coming in.

Sometimes a white lie is the easiest way through this. One place I worked, where bosses weren't keen on people booking single days off here and there, I said I was having major dental treatment and wanted to book a whole day off so that if I was in serious pain afterwards I wouldn't be forced to come back into work afterwards. Whenever I subsequently needed a day off my boss would go 'Ah, more dental treatment?' and be sympathetic.

You're clearly quite stressed about the whole payslip/ sick pay situation. Do you think that's making you tetchy in response to perfectly ordinary workplace chitchat?

EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 27/05/2024 12:54

AGlinnerOfHope · 27/05/2024 08:46

It'll be the pattern of it that's confusing them. People like to put context in, and odds and sods of leave doesn't fit so triggers their spidey senses.

It wouldn't if they weren't nosey parkers. Do people really have 'spidey senses' about other people's time off?

This kind of thing is just one of the many reasons I'm glad I wfh now. The absence of nosey questions and subsequent value judgements.

Shan5474 · 27/05/2024 13:33

Very rude of your colleagues! You’re entitled to take time off for for whatever you want, sitting on your bum at home is no less valid than sitting on your bum on holiday! You shouldn’t have to justify it and in your case medical appointments are private. I’d just say “I’ve got some bits I need to do” and they can make of that what they will