to enjoy hearing Paula Vennels being taken apart?

[Sausagenbacon]

Is anyone else listening - radio 5 at the moment. Paula Vennels being slowly picked apart by an expert?

I think you're right. I may be wrong, but I think tomorrow is lawyers on their behalf, which will have less impact. Id love to be wrong.

IIRC Beer did a similarly good job of dealing with PV's parliamentary privilege yesterday. He had a series of questions based on "What was your state of mind at 10 am on the day you gave evidence to parliament, before you went in?"

Can't remember if it was for this that he had evidence of her briefing notes or other prep.

I've been so angry about this scandal for years but nothing ever seemed to happen so it's great it's all coming to a head now. Let's hope a few are prosecuted and go to jail

Nick Wallis did a short tour a few weeks ago talking about the case and the history of it in the wake of the tv series. He was so good to listen to and I cried at the end when he bought on one of the SPMs who was jailed to talk about his experience. He had to borrow £200k from his father to make good his losses and as he said, if he'd stolen £200k where was it ? As they never found it in his bank or under the bed.

He was prosecuted with no production of evidence proving he took the money. They removed all the computer equipment from his PO together either his paperwork when the investigators raided and when his lawyer asked to see it all so they could check it and use the evidence it had gone. Disappeared. Never seen again. If the PO had had to use the CPS to prosecute instead of going their own dirty work it would never have reached court as they couldn't prove anything. He's had his £200k back now but not received any compensation so far. It's a national disgrace.

Ah ok. That's a pity but I suppose they may not want to put themselves through it. I do think it would cut through the Vennels bullshit very quickly though.

True. Her fake crying would look very am dram compared to their genuine distress. But I don't think that's the plan.

Still I bet she's doing all her shopping online, she wouldn't be welcome in her local shops right now. I hope she gets all the bad substitutions.

And the rest. There's something about the religion that really sticks in my gut tbh. The absolute two facedness of it. Obviously not all religious people are like that 😂 but it's so jarring that she did what she did while at the same time actually preaching to people about how they could live their lives better. Stuff like this absolutely infuriates me tbh. I really hope she gets what's coming to her (within the remit of the justice system).

Completely agree re the religion angle. But the hypocrisy is often strong in these types. Do as I don't do or even say.

What if she was a clueless manager who believed what she was told, didn't ask difficult questions and just a bit crap? Is that possible? Or did she definitely lie?

Justin Welby is being shown yet again to have some shocking character judgement.

If she was, then she should really at this point just spare the time wasting and say yes, I was entirely incompetent etc. But really I don't think that'd fly. It was too big a job to be that incompetent.

Ignorance of the law is never a defence anywhere. But I was referring to ignorance of the facts of what is going on, e.g., "Maybe the CFO was embezzling half the profits / our factory was pumping plutonium into the Thames / our software was defrauding people. But nobody ever told me anything, despite my open and warm management style. Do you expect me to be psychic?". Well yes, for the money you're getting paid, it's your job to know what every one of your senior management team is doing, and to question them skeptically about it. CEOs like Vennells seem to treat the job as a lark, a reward for winning some kind of lottery.

Bates v post office is on itvx I just watched it. After hearing the case was going on.

It was a few months ago that first heard of this miscarriage of justice (I'm in Australia) and was outraged on behalf of all the Post Masters. I cried, I read everything I could and just got angrier and angrier.

Paula Vennels and all her cronies need to do prison time. They need to stripped of all their bonuses and salaries while they were in their positions - as how can you expect to be paid big dollars for failing miserably? But they did!

As for Nick Wallis, Mr Bates, MP James Arbuthnot and every single other person that stood up absolutely outstanding and will forever go down as wonderful people.

The following is from part of Jarnail Singh's evidence last year . . . both these statements were made by him on the first morning

Jarnail Singh: It was an open-plan office. We had the head of Legal, which was – I’ve forgotten his name now, Hugh Flemington, I think it was, and the director of – or counsel was Susan Crichton. She was a lovely lady, and Hugh, we got on really well.

Jarnail Singh: Yeah, I don’t know any of them. I mean, even Susan Crichton, I have probably met her. I didn’t know her. Certainly – any of them. I mean, Mandy Talbot I know because I think she was in the civil litigation in the same building and Impact House at Croydon. Hugh Flemington, I don’t know who he was. I mean, subsequently when I joined the – the Post Office Limited on 1 April ‘12, I’ve never met him. I don’t know who he was. So certainly I wouldn’t have just plucked them out of the air and put them in.

“We know they are lying, they know they are lying, they know we know they are lying, we know they know we know they are lying, but they are still lying.”

― Solzhenitsyn Aleksandr Isaevich

Over the years I have watched a few Public Inquiries and unfortunately it is very rare it proceeds to criminal convictions.

What helps me (although it might nor help you or the sub postmasters/mistresses) is these people are now part of history - in a bad way.

To give you an example: Covid Inquiry and Boris Johnson.
BJ only aim in life was to be known as one of the greatest Prime Ministers, along with his hero Winston Churchill.

Because of the Covid Inquiry and all the other investigations and reviews, history will forever show he was the worst PM in history.
His aim of of his name and legacy to be linked with Churchill will never happen.l, and I find comfort in that.

In this case, Post Office scandal.
I like to take comfort that Paula and others will forever be known in history as causing the biggest miscarriage of justice in the UK.
Her name and legacy will not be what she wants, I.e. to be seen as a charitable, religious, dedicated her life to public service etc.
Being responsible for ruining the lives of thousands of people- this is her true legacy

In fact, she is also in the ranks of people who had their OBE removed or forfeited their honour. I know strictly speaking she "voluntarily" gave it back, but we all know she didn't really want to.
She is in company with the likes of Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris Harvey Weinstein, etc.

Not sure if that helps.

@minou123 ,

The idea that these people have been ostracised (apart from sex criminals) is far from true.

Boris is still revered by sections of the Tory party and paid huge fees for public speaking.

Fred Goodwin is still welcomed at his golf course and, I believe, did paid advisory work post RBS.

We shall see what happens to Paula Vennels, but I am sure she has lots of sympathetic friends and colleagues.

It will be of little comfort to the sub postmasters that her ‘place in history’ has been slightly tarnished as she continues to enjoy a life of luxury.

The UK is unusual in that money and connections appear to insulate you ever having to go to jail for financial crimes. I cannot think of a single properly wealthy person who has been prosecuted for mismanaging a company and taking vast sums of money to do so. It is certainly very different in the U.S.

Did you see the bit where she said Susan had the documents three days before. Then corrected it to say before

I still smirked.
it’s always three days with these people

hoping you get the reference

Today will be good when the solicitors representing the postmasters question her. They’re far less restrained than Mr Beer. You can find all the hearings if you search post office inquiry. The level of incompetence shown by those involved is staggering.

Maybe when the victims families testify people will get a bit more riled up. So far, they have been forgotten in the whole thing.

As general interest about the victims, when the Post Office Inquiry started there was weeks of testimony from victims. If you go to this webpage and scroll all the way down you'll see what they had to say:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

Is there any complete recording of her performance evidence? Only managed to see snippets on the evening news.

Yes; the whole days recordings are available on YouTube.

Oops sorry cross post!

This is an interesting coincidence (triggered by the General Election):

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp003mz7d14o