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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Regarding disabled parking

647 replies

appendix · 21/05/2024 09:59

I work for a small company. We have office space in a small building which houses a number of other companies. There is just about enough adequate parking for all employees in terms of number of spaces.
Here is where I think I've messed up. I'm operations manager. The company is too small to have HR (we outsource things like payroll) so often HR adjacent queries end up with me.

We have 2 disabled employees. One (Sue) has significantly mobility limitations and uses a big motorised wheelchair. The other (Lynda) has less significant mobility issues (ie doesn't need a wheelchair, can walk small distances.) Both are have blue badges.

There are 3 disabled spaces in the carpark. One can be discounted as it's always in use by an employee of another company in the building who starts work very early. Out of the remaining 2 only one is big enough to accommodate Sue's needs (electric ramp for a big wheelchair etc). The issue we have is that Lynda insists on parking in it. She gets to work earlier than Sue who has childcare limitations and always parks there. It's causing a lot of frustration and ill will, especially as the other non wheelchair sized space is actually closer to the entrance, so it seems a perverse choice.

There has been a lot of grumbling among staff about this. It was especially bad a few days ago when Sue had to call for assistance - she had to get out of her car at the entrance and a colleague had to park her vehicle for her. Lynda sits watching this. Other staff members have spoken to her and asked if she could park in the other, closer space but she refuses.

Note- Sue and Lynda have clashed a bit over the years- there's only one disabled loo on our floor and yet they seem to always need it at the same time etc. I've been reliably informed that Lynda won't park close to the entrance because then her start and leave times will be visible to everyone- the other larger space is around a bend and can be accessed via a side door so her in and outs are not visible.

Anyway, we have spoken multiple times to the people who own the offices. They give no shits. The car park is apparently compliant in terms of spaces and they're not prepared to do anything more.

Our company owner has now said that whichever employee gets in first needs to park next to her reserved space and let reception know. When Sue arrives the person in the space next to the reserved one nips out, moves their car and Sue parks across both spaces. Owner then just parks where she can find a space.

It's not ideal especially in the rain. It's caused massive ill will towards Lynda who has just come to me and said she feels she's being bullied due to her disability. (She's not being included in lunch orders or social stuff organised by staff themselves, although she is fully included in terms of her job.) Honestly the company owner doesn't feel particularly warm towards her.

I'm not a HR person. I felt that as she wasn't being excluded in terms of work etc there's not a lot I can do about people liking her and I pretty much told her that. I was talking to a friend about it though and they said we could actually be in trouble for not including her in lunches/ social things, especially as it's because of issues caused by a disability. (She's invited to all work organised events, just not informal staff drinks / lunches/ chats/ coffee rounds organised by the staff)

I'm going to suggest getting some HR advice but was I wrong?

OP posts:
Bushmillsbabe · 21/05/2024 13:20

Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 10:37

So I'm not familiar with the situation on private land.

I do know that on the road, you can't have a disabled space that is just for you.

So if someone wants a disabled space e outside their house, they can apply to the council to get one but then anyone with a blue badge can park there, you can't "save" it in any way (with bollards or whatever) for you.

As your company doesn't own the car park and the company that does apparently does not want to get involved (quite correctly in my view) you cannot take the obvious solution which is to paint out a different double space for Sue. You also can't put up bollards or anything like that as your company doesn't own the car park.

I suspect that you will find that if someone parks in the bigger blue badge space to "save" it for Sue that Lynda will complain to the owners of the building and that person will (correctly) have action taken against them for parking in a blue badge space without a blue badge.

Your company is on very thin ice in trying to adjudicate over who "gets" a more preferable space in a car park that doesn't belong to you and where the legal presumption is first come first served.

Maybe it varies by area, but this isn't my experience - working with disabled children, those families that need a space directly outside their house, there is a sign 'only for use by vehicle Reg......'

appendix · 21/05/2024 13:21

We cannot magic up new and differently shaped parking spaces. We don't own the building or the parking. I have a folder of emails including one where we offered to pay for the new markings. It's not happening.

We cannot move to another building due to a lease.

I really do understand that there's no better/ worse when it comes to disability but the facts are that one is completely wheelchair bound and the other can walk and get in and out if her standard unmodified car.

I understand the comments about the toilet provision made upthread but please note we're a company of fewer than 20 people. We hire a floor in a serviced office building and there is only one disabled toilet, one male and one female. I'm sure the owner would like somewhere swankier but she pays good wages and I've seen the accounts...

Finally the commentary around my comment over the clash regarding the disabled toilet is interesting. I tried not to say much but there's been some projection going on upthread so I thought I'd be clear- whenever Sue manoeuvres her wheelchair out and heads towards the loo, Lynda nips in first. Lynda is closer and faster. She's then in there for a long time. Almost EVERY time. Sue did say something and Lynda explained it was because when she sees her coming she knows she'll be a while because (as someone pointed out upthread) it's hard hoisting yourself in and out of a chair. So she nips in first JUST IN CASE SO SHE"LL NEVER HAVE TO WAIT.
Watching her do this is hugely frustrating. It would be lovely to have 2 disabled loos but we dont.

The final frustration is that when Lynda was still invited on nights out the disabled facilities in the local pub often have a queue as they're baby changing as well (I know how shit this is!) so Lynda just uses the normal toilets then....

The two don't get on for a lot of reasons, some work related and some due to personalities, politics, and religion. They once had a huge argument over baby led weaning! They just couldn't be more different but I'd hope that Lynda could be a bit more empathetic or explain why additional accommodation is needed.

OP posts:
DoreenonTill8 · 21/05/2024 13:21

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 12:40

more seriously disabled colleague.

Its exactly this type of thinking that causes so many problems and discrimination for disabled people.

A wheelchair user is not necessarily ‘more disabled’ than another disabled person. Disability is not a linear spectrum from mild to severe.

Lynda (or any non wheelchair using disabled person) could have a number of symptoms/reasons why she needs the bigger space- she is not obliged to disclose these to the whole office.

Yet an office full of people have used utterly lazy thinking and decided wheelchair= ‘most disabled’, and then engaged in stupid saviour like behaviour for the poor wheelchair lady by being dicks to another disabled person.

@appendixffs get some proper hr and legal advice. If you start monitoring her coming and going, leaving her out of social things, talking about her and ostracising her because she uses a car parking space she is entitled to use because she is disabled (and chooses not to disclose her private medical information to the whole office) you are asking for trouble.

100% this, although it seems too late for anything constructive, op and the rest of the office are well down the road of bitching about Lynda, aligning everything she does as malicious, monitoring her work day and deliberately excluding her from things. Sounds like a fabulous, friendly place to work!

PurpleHiker · 21/05/2024 13:22

Could your company pay for suitable, accessible transport for Sue so she wouldn't need a space? That would solve all the issues and the company would be making reasonable adjustments, but obviously at a cost.

FlabMonsterIsDietingAgain · 21/05/2024 13:26

Definitely speak to HR or Legal but the direction I would be asking about is whether there is a legitimate reason why those spaces can't be name allocated to specific users. If there is no legal reason not to do that then I would allocate the spaces according to the needs you are aware of as you can't dos something about something you don't know about.

If Lynda then used the space allocated to Susan that would become a disciplinary matter.

whatthematters · 21/05/2024 13:27

Our company owner has now said that whichever employee gets in first needs to park next to her reserved space and let reception know. When Sue arrives the person in the space next to the reserved one nips out, moves their car and Sue parks across both spaces. Owner then just parks where she can find a space

How was Sue managing to park and manoeuvre before the owner started doing this?

takealettermsjones · 21/05/2024 13:29

whatthematters · 21/05/2024 13:27

Our company owner has now said that whichever employee gets in first needs to park next to her reserved space and let reception know. When Sue arrives the person in the space next to the reserved one nips out, moves their car and Sue parks across both spaces. Owner then just parks where she can find a space

How was Sue managing to park and manoeuvre before the owner started doing this?

I believe she was just stopping outside the entrance, getting our of her car, and someone else was parking it for her.

appendix · 21/05/2024 13:29

And to @DoreenonTill8 - honestly it is an amazing place to work. In a totally toxic male dominated sexist field the owner has built a company that is family friendly, non sexist, LGBTQ friendly and disability friendly. Sue and Lynda have both spoken about what a haven it was working here, until the parking wars kicked off (Lynda only recently got a blue badge.)

I'm trying to mediate but people see what they think is poor behaviour and respond.

OP posts:
appendix · 21/05/2024 13:30

FlabMonsterIsDietingAgain · 21/05/2024 13:26

Definitely speak to HR or Legal but the direction I would be asking about is whether there is a legitimate reason why those spaces can't be name allocated to specific users. If there is no legal reason not to do that then I would allocate the spaces according to the needs you are aware of as you can't dos something about something you don't know about.

If Lynda then used the space allocated to Susan that would become a disciplinary matter.

The owners won't allow us. We tried.

OP posts:
takealettermsjones · 21/05/2024 13:31

The final frustration is that when Lynda was still invited on nights out the disabled facilities in the local pub often have a queue as they're baby changing as well (I know how shit this is!) so Lynda just uses the normal toilets then....

Sorry I know it doesn't solve the problem at hand but just be careful with this - there could be legitimate reasons for this e.g. the pub toilets are wider or better lit or have something to hold onto etc

Lackinginspiration1 · 21/05/2024 13:31

Can you leave a note on the third car and ask if they can use the other space instead? They might not be aware of Sue’s difficulties and be happy to help

Harassedevictee · 21/05/2024 13:31

@appendix you have three issues and you need to separate them out. Ideally if you can get an HR professional to assist.

Some of the following will depend on what your policies and contracts state.

  1. Lynda’s time keeping
  2. can you install CCTV to monitor the hidden disabled parking space? If you already have it and can accurately establish when Lynda arrives and leaves write down the times for a fortnight as it is evidence.
  3. how do you manage other staff’s working time? time sheets, trust or by outputs?
  4. line manager keeping a record of time keeping.
  5. Line manager having regular 1:2:1s that set out expectations and agreed objectives regarding time keeping and outputs. Make sure any reasonable adjustments are captured and put in place.
  6. Line manager taking disciplinary action once they have the evidence,
  7. this is a reasonably straightforward management issue. Solve this and you may find the parking resolves itself.
  8. Lynda being excluded - this must stop immediately. It is bullying and undermines any attempts to manage Lynda.
  9. Sue’s parking requirements -
  10. start again with Lynda and explain why Sue needs the space. Ask Lynda why she can’t use the other disabled space.
  11. Ask Lynda how she thinks Sue feels (basically try and get her to see she is being unfair and possibly discriminatory to Sue).
  12. Can you put notices on the space next to the other disabled space so jointly they are suitable for Sue e.g. please keep this space clear to allow disabled person to park?
appendix · 21/05/2024 13:33

takealettermsjones · 21/05/2024 13:31

The final frustration is that when Lynda was still invited on nights out the disabled facilities in the local pub often have a queue as they're baby changing as well (I know how shit this is!) so Lynda just uses the normal toilets then....

Sorry I know it doesn't solve the problem at hand but just be careful with this - there could be legitimate reasons for this e.g. the pub toilets are wider or better lit or have something to hold onto etc

They're little and grim!

I am directing people not to think and talk about this but when they see Sue waiting outside the disabled loo for 15 mins twice a day people get a bit... intemperate

OP posts:
Heronwatcher · 21/05/2024 13:34

One thought, you say in your OP that the company owner has a space reserved for them- could a space not be reserved for Sue, either the big disabled space or another in the car park that is suitable. You’d have to go through a process with HR but if it is a reasonable adjustment that Sue needs a space xm by xm then I think the company has to provide this and the car park would have to facilitate it. You could also ask the car park to designate another space as disabled because one has been “lost” for other disabled users (if you want to make life easy for yourself put it where Linda likes to park).

Then you would be able to tell Linda that it is a legal requirement that Sue has access to the space (I.e no room for negotiation). With regard to the rest of the team I don’t think you can force them to ask Linda for lunch and I don’t think not asking her is necessarily bullying, you could though organise a team event and make sure everyone is invited as well as perhaps doing a mini training session on micro aggressions. But if Sue’s parking issues are resolved then it may sort itself out (plus I do think that’s the most important thing here).

takealettermsjones · 21/05/2024 13:37

appendix · 21/05/2024 13:33

They're little and grim!

I am directing people not to think and talk about this but when they see Sue waiting outside the disabled loo for 15 mins twice a day people get a bit... intemperate

I understand, I just don't think it's a good idea to get into "well you used it then so why not now" etc. There could be reasons not thought of. I have an invisible disability that flares up. When I'm not having a flare you wouldn't know at all.

Lynda's not being unreasonable to use the facilities on offer to her. She would be unreasonable if she were using the facilities provided for Sue and Sue alone, so I think the task you have is finding a way of providing something just for Sue, but legally. Not a happy task, I know.

Her behaviour around the toilets does sound selfish. I have no idea how you'd address it though.
A minefield.

PancakesWithLemonSugar · 21/05/2024 13:39

Presumably Lynda still has to swipe to come in & out the side door? So if she is concerned about people knowing when she has entered / left then it can still be tracked because there would be a log of whose card has opened the door?? Or is that just in hospitals?!

whatthematters · 21/05/2024 13:43

What are the legal requirements for a business in providing disabled spaces where they offer car parking?

Balloonhearts · 21/05/2024 13:45

Could Sue use the general space at the other end as there is nothing on the other side of that one either. Could you get that allocated to her?

lentilandrice · 21/05/2024 13:47

takealettermsjones · 21/05/2024 13:37

I understand, I just don't think it's a good idea to get into "well you used it then so why not now" etc. There could be reasons not thought of. I have an invisible disability that flares up. When I'm not having a flare you wouldn't know at all.

Lynda's not being unreasonable to use the facilities on offer to her. She would be unreasonable if she were using the facilities provided for Sue and Sue alone, so I think the task you have is finding a way of providing something just for Sue, but legally. Not a happy task, I know.

Her behaviour around the toilets does sound selfish. I have no idea how you'd address it though.
A minefield.

If I were Sue I’d give a heads up to Lynda every time I think I might need to use the loo. ‘Lynda, I’m going to be using the loo shortly so do nip in before me so you don’t have to wait.’ Every single time. Lynda may well have anxiety around using the loo which is why she always tries to get in first. She might have IBS or something else she doesn’t want or have to disclose. This would allow her to use the loo and Sue to not have to hang around outside.

As for the parking, Lynda may have good reasons for using that space. People calling her a bitch and spiteful really have no idea how different disabilities may play out. She could have an anxiety around parking, for example, or any other reason. Many disabilities are invisible and her mobility might be only one visible aspect of that. Excluding her from social events is bullying and staff need to be made aware they can be called out for that. Her work hours are an entirely separate issue.

OP, I know you say your organisation is inclusive and not toxic but it sounds very unpleasant to me.

JudgeJ · 21/05/2024 13:50

Pastlast · 21/05/2024 10:33

I think if she is being excluded from stuff and can relate it back to her disability then absolutely you need specific HR advice on this.

Surely staff can't be forced to include someone in social events if they don't like her, whatever her disabilities might be.

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 13:52

appendix · 21/05/2024 13:33

They're little and grim!

I am directing people not to think and talk about this but when they see Sue waiting outside the disabled loo for 15 mins twice a day people get a bit... intemperate

She might have a reason why she can’t wait- hence panicking when she sees Sue and going first.

When the consequence of waiting 15 minutes is shitting yourself you get a bit paranoid about bathrooms.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 21/05/2024 13:53

She could have an anxiety around parking, for example, or any other reason.

Seems unlikely if she's only just got the blue badge. Until now she would have been using the standard spaces.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 21/05/2024 13:55

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 13:52

She might have a reason why she can’t wait- hence panicking when she sees Sue and going first.

When the consequence of waiting 15 minutes is shitting yourself you get a bit paranoid about bathrooms.

Is she unable to use the other loo, though?

SirAlfredSpatchcock · 21/05/2024 13:55

PurpleHiker · 21/05/2024 13:22

Could your company pay for suitable, accessible transport for Sue so she wouldn't need a space? That would solve all the issues and the company would be making reasonable adjustments, but obviously at a cost.

Aside from it being grossly unfair to take away some of Sue's independence from her, just because somebody else seems to want to validate herself as disabled and take any benefits on offer because of it, whether she needs them or not, how many public transport options are there practically going to be in existence for a person who needs a large, heavy wheelchair?

The reason for schemes like Motability is that, whilst cars are often convenient for able-bodied people - who can usually easily take taxis when appropriate - they are essential for disabled people, hence they have a vehicle that is adapted to their personal needs.

Considering that specialist companies that adapt vehicles for disabled people don't usually have a 'standard' WAV, but rather they find out what the customer's personal circumstances and requirements are before doing a bespoke adaptation for them, how likely is it that a random taxi will happen to have a car/van that is perfectly suited to all of the disabled passenger's needs?

allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld · 21/05/2024 13:56

@appendix oh so you get nice disabled employee and you get nasty as shit disabled employee?? why not ask the owner of the building to mark the larger space as "wheelchair user only"? that walking disabled employee is not very nice at all and is definitely playing on her disability!!

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