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AIBU?

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Regarding disabled parking

647 replies

appendix · 21/05/2024 09:59

I work for a small company. We have office space in a small building which houses a number of other companies. There is just about enough adequate parking for all employees in terms of number of spaces.
Here is where I think I've messed up. I'm operations manager. The company is too small to have HR (we outsource things like payroll) so often HR adjacent queries end up with me.

We have 2 disabled employees. One (Sue) has significantly mobility limitations and uses a big motorised wheelchair. The other (Lynda) has less significant mobility issues (ie doesn't need a wheelchair, can walk small distances.) Both are have blue badges.

There are 3 disabled spaces in the carpark. One can be discounted as it's always in use by an employee of another company in the building who starts work very early. Out of the remaining 2 only one is big enough to accommodate Sue's needs (electric ramp for a big wheelchair etc). The issue we have is that Lynda insists on parking in it. She gets to work earlier than Sue who has childcare limitations and always parks there. It's causing a lot of frustration and ill will, especially as the other non wheelchair sized space is actually closer to the entrance, so it seems a perverse choice.

There has been a lot of grumbling among staff about this. It was especially bad a few days ago when Sue had to call for assistance - she had to get out of her car at the entrance and a colleague had to park her vehicle for her. Lynda sits watching this. Other staff members have spoken to her and asked if she could park in the other, closer space but she refuses.

Note- Sue and Lynda have clashed a bit over the years- there's only one disabled loo on our floor and yet they seem to always need it at the same time etc. I've been reliably informed that Lynda won't park close to the entrance because then her start and leave times will be visible to everyone- the other larger space is around a bend and can be accessed via a side door so her in and outs are not visible.

Anyway, we have spoken multiple times to the people who own the offices. They give no shits. The car park is apparently compliant in terms of spaces and they're not prepared to do anything more.

Our company owner has now said that whichever employee gets in first needs to park next to her reserved space and let reception know. When Sue arrives the person in the space next to the reserved one nips out, moves their car and Sue parks across both spaces. Owner then just parks where she can find a space.

It's not ideal especially in the rain. It's caused massive ill will towards Lynda who has just come to me and said she feels she's being bullied due to her disability. (She's not being included in lunch orders or social stuff organised by staff themselves, although she is fully included in terms of her job.) Honestly the company owner doesn't feel particularly warm towards her.

I'm not a HR person. I felt that as she wasn't being excluded in terms of work etc there's not a lot I can do about people liking her and I pretty much told her that. I was talking to a friend about it though and they said we could actually be in trouble for not including her in lunches/ social things, especially as it's because of issues caused by a disability. (She's invited to all work organised events, just not informal staff drinks / lunches/ chats/ coffee rounds organised by the staff)

I'm going to suggest getting some HR advice but was I wrong?

OP posts:
Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 12:46

MrsJackThornton · 21/05/2024 12:36

I would imagine that because Sue is in a wheelchair and Linda has mobility issues one or both of them take significantly longer is the bathroom and therefore if the other person wants the toilet at the same time they have to wait quite awhile. They may also be less able to wait awhile due to their disability.

And instead of seeing it for what it is, a lack of facilities, the OP (and by the sounds of things the company culture) prefer to point fingers at the people with disabilities and call it a clash.

It's easier to point fingers at people with disabilities rather than really accept that the world is not built for them or fully adapted for them.

If everyone was having to wait for one toilet and a woman in a wheelchair to maneuver themselves in and out of it (which I have done and it's not easy) you can bet your life they would be impatient and frustrated with the lack of other facilties. But it's easier to blame Linda for clashing...

Exactly this.

Shit provision and accessibility- but let’s find a disabled person to blame rather than the people responsible for the provision.

Extra useful if you have a ‘Lynda’ ie, a non wheelchair using middle aged woman who you can talk of as less disabled, difficult, a bitch… basically you have yourself an office ‘Karen’ to hate, and an office saint (poor wheelchair ridden Sue) to fawn over.

theilltemperedclavecinist · 21/05/2024 12:46

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 12:38

But it's not their carpark, it belongs to the owners of the building. This one company can't start taking spaces off other companies

The user of space 1 might be willing to do a straight swap?

WaltzingWaters · 21/05/2024 12:47

Linda isn’t being no discriminated on because of her disability, she’s being discriminated on because she’s being a selfish bitch. That’s the natural consequence of her actions. If there’s a medical reason why she needs that specific space then she needs to (confidentially) express that to you and come up with a solution that benefits everyone. Being able to dip in and out of work late/early of whatever her reasoning is really is not an acceptable reason (more likely a reason to ensure she doesn’t park there!).

If anything, Linda is discriminating against Sue’s disability by making her (and colleagues who then need to move their cars) life difficult.

Wotcher · 21/05/2024 12:48

Lynda sounds like a selfish bitch and she needs to be addressed for abusing company time.

GoingOnHol · 21/05/2024 12:52

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 12:34

Just how much bigger IS this space?

Usually cars with ramps etc come out of the back of the car don't they? So width wouldn't matter

I assumed it isn't bigger but because it's on the end of the row it's easier to get in/out

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 12:52

WaltzingWaters · 21/05/2024 12:47

Linda isn’t being no discriminated on because of her disability, she’s being discriminated on because she’s being a selfish bitch. That’s the natural consequence of her actions. If there’s a medical reason why she needs that specific space then she needs to (confidentially) express that to you and come up with a solution that benefits everyone. Being able to dip in and out of work late/early of whatever her reasoning is really is not an acceptable reason (more likely a reason to ensure she doesn’t park there!).

If anything, Linda is discriminating against Sue’s disability by making her (and colleagues who then need to move their cars) life difficult.

Edited

and come up with a solution that benefits everyone.

The company is responsible for providing accessible parking that works for the staff they employed, Lynda isn’t responsible for their failings.

If it were on the employee to deal with the issue then Sue could be expected to arrive first every day, or drive a smaller car (op says it’s particularly large because she has a big family, not because of the size of her chair).

You can’t have it both ways- either it’s the staff’s responsibility or the company’s- it can’t be Lynda’s responsibility but not Sue’s. Not unless you enjoy employment tribunals.

If there’s a medical reason why she needs that specific space then she needs to (confidentially) express that to you

The op isn’t her boss, HR or occy health- she doesn’t have to be told anything.

MrsJackThornton · 21/05/2024 12:52

Gotta love it when the lack of sufficiently large enough disabled spaces (not of them are large enough, 2 just happen to be by an empty gap) by a company probably charging thousands for its spaces are framed as "selfish bitch" and not "car park owning company providing the bare minium for disabled employees"

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 12:55

Lynda potentially not doing her work is a separate issue (and frankly, she obviously arrives before Sue else Sue could have the space, and the company doesn't seem to have any strict/set hours)

Lynda is being bullied and discriminated against because other staff have decided she isn't "disabled enough" to use a parking bay she is entitled to use. And maybe also because her disability is making her struggle to maintain the workload (for example, maybe doing 8-3 is too long and exhausts her but doing 8:30-3 is managable). Lydna is having a review about this but it sounds like judgement has already been made (OP sounds bitter that she might need further adjustment for example)

There's also the judgment about needing to use the same toilet at the same time...

Shefliesonherownwings · 21/05/2024 12:56

You say you’ve been reliably informed that the reason she parks round the corner is so her start and finish times aren’t obvious, but when you’ve asked her to park in the smaller space, what reason does SHE give for refusing? Surely that is her opportunity to explain why she can’t park in the smaller space if there is a changed medical need.

Assuming she is being deliberately obstructive because she wants to hide her comings and goings and hasn’t given a legitimate reason for needing the bigger space, I think her manager needs to start a conversation about whether there is any changed medical need and explain that the company is not meeting the other persons agreed reasonable adjustments by not allowing her to park in the bigger space. Unless Lynda or whatever her name is can justify why she won’t park elsewhere, she has to be given a firm direction that she is to park in the smaller space going forward without argument.

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2024 12:56

The company is responsible for providing accessible parking that works for the staff they employed

Not necessarily. If they provide zero parking for anyone. then they don't have to make any adjustments to provide it for disabled parking. You can't magic up resources of thin air.

Why companies and commercial landlords aren't afforded a tax break for providing reasonable adjustments is a topic for 50 years ago (when my late DM was banging on about it). Still, rainbows everyone !

Shefliesonherownwings · 21/05/2024 12:57

I don’t think her being left out of social things is about her disability, it’s about her attitude and unwillingness to accommodate others, therefore I’d agree with what you have said to her about not being able to do much about the social side of things.

MrsJackThornton · 21/05/2024 12:58

The reality is if all three spaces were in the middle of a row of parking rather than 2 being on ends next to spaces/paths you would be in exactly the same position you are now, with no suitable space for Sue

If Linda worked for the same company as the other disabled person you would be in the same position you are now with no suitable space for Sue

If there were only two disabled spaces, and Linda arrives first, you would be in the exact same position you are now with no suitable place for Stu

So stop blaming Linda and sort the actual problem out.

And maybe stop bitching about her too, because the idea that she is able to "steal" Sue's spot because she arrives earlier than Sue, whilst simultaneously in the wrong for leaving earlier because she can't possible have started early seems to be missing some critical thinking

Kalevala · 21/05/2024 12:59

See if you can swap reserved space one and three. Your boss can then reverse park with their passenger side on the line leaving more space in the second disabled spot. Other reserved spots can all park over a bit too.

FloofyBear · 21/05/2024 13:01

parkrun500club · 21/05/2024 10:21

Why are people so childish? If there are two bays and only one works for Sue, Sue uses that one and Linda uses the other. Quite honestly I wouldn't humour Linda on this.

This!! Honestly, a fellow person with disabilities 'normally' helps and supports fellow sufferers - same with everything at work, it's called working as a team- Lydia is getting the bums rush - quite rightly so!

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 13:03

Shefliesonherownwings · 21/05/2024 12:56

You say you’ve been reliably informed that the reason she parks round the corner is so her start and finish times aren’t obvious, but when you’ve asked her to park in the smaller space, what reason does SHE give for refusing? Surely that is her opportunity to explain why she can’t park in the smaller space if there is a changed medical need.

Assuming she is being deliberately obstructive because she wants to hide her comings and goings and hasn’t given a legitimate reason for needing the bigger space, I think her manager needs to start a conversation about whether there is any changed medical need and explain that the company is not meeting the other persons agreed reasonable adjustments by not allowing her to park in the bigger space. Unless Lynda or whatever her name is can justify why she won’t park elsewhere, she has to be given a firm direction that she is to park in the smaller space going forward without argument.

I think her manager needs to start a conversation about whether there is any changed medical need and explain that the company is not meeting the other persons agreed reasonable adjustments by not allowing her to park in the bigger space

That isn’t Lynda’s problem. She has NO responsibility to facilitate Sue parking, especially when they are both legally entitled to that space.

As is every other BB holder in every company that uses that car park, plus visitors to those companies if they have a BB. They are all EQUALLY disabled.

The only real solution is for the company to move premises, buy more parking space, pay to re design the current space or allow Sue or Lynda to work from home.

SirAlfredSpatchcock · 21/05/2024 13:05

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2024 12:07

You really need to understand "reasonable adjustments". Trying to be clever like this isn't really a good idea.

Am I missing something? Why is it a reasonable adjustment that she 'needs' to use the side door?

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 13:07

MrsJackThornton · 21/05/2024 12:58

The reality is if all three spaces were in the middle of a row of parking rather than 2 being on ends next to spaces/paths you would be in exactly the same position you are now, with no suitable space for Sue

If Linda worked for the same company as the other disabled person you would be in the same position you are now with no suitable space for Sue

If there were only two disabled spaces, and Linda arrives first, you would be in the exact same position you are now with no suitable place for Stu

So stop blaming Linda and sort the actual problem out.

And maybe stop bitching about her too, because the idea that she is able to "steal" Sue's spot because she arrives earlier than Sue, whilst simultaneously in the wrong for leaving earlier because she can't possible have started early seems to be missing some critical thinking

Add to that if another disabled person is employed by any company using that car park then they will be in the same position again.

People need to stop blaming the disabled for shit accessibility!

ButWhatAboutTheBees · 21/05/2024 13:09

MrsJackThornton · 21/05/2024 12:58

The reality is if all three spaces were in the middle of a row of parking rather than 2 being on ends next to spaces/paths you would be in exactly the same position you are now, with no suitable space for Sue

If Linda worked for the same company as the other disabled person you would be in the same position you are now with no suitable space for Sue

If there were only two disabled spaces, and Linda arrives first, you would be in the exact same position you are now with no suitable place for Stu

So stop blaming Linda and sort the actual problem out.

And maybe stop bitching about her too, because the idea that she is able to "steal" Sue's spot because she arrives earlier than Sue, whilst simultaneously in the wrong for leaving earlier because she can't possible have started early seems to be missing some critical thinking

Exactly

If another company hires another person requiring a disabled space then you'd be in the same position

If another company has a disabled visitor who uses a parking bay you'd be in the same position

You wouldn't go to one of the other companies and demand their employee use the other bay because Sue needs the bigger one (although even now they could presumably do this for Bay 1 as that also has open space next to it? But they won't because they know its unreasonable)

Is there any way Sue can arrived earlier?

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 13:10

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2024 12:56

The company is responsible for providing accessible parking that works for the staff they employed

Not necessarily. If they provide zero parking for anyone. then they don't have to make any adjustments to provide it for disabled parking. You can't magic up resources of thin air.

Why companies and commercial landlords aren't afforded a tax break for providing reasonable adjustments is a topic for 50 years ago (when my late DM was banging on about it). Still, rainbows everyone !

That’s fine, places that don’t have parking don’t have parking.

Places that do have parking (like this company) are responsible for the accessibility of their facilities.

stayathomer · 21/05/2024 13:10

Could you organise mediation with the two of them, yourself and whoever is above you? (Apologies if this is a stupid idea!)

SirAlfredSpatchcock · 21/05/2024 13:14

SerendipityJane · 21/05/2024 12:23

It seems a bit mean of the person with lower level of disability

The whole point of Blue Badges - and indeed modern disability rights - is to avoid creating a hierarchy of disability. Because it never ends well.

But the very existence of blue badges - essential though they are - serves to very much create a hierarchy of disability.

Loads of people have disabilities which present them with considerable challenges in life, but are not considered eligible for a blue badge.

Every time the government or local councils make changes that would adversely affect disabled people if no allowances or concessions were made, they always stress that they will put measures in place to protect access to facilities for 'disabled people' (whether those measures are actually fair or effective or not) - but by that, they mean blue badge holders only, and all of the other disabled people can just go and get stuffed, like they never existed at all in the first place.

Roundroundthegarden · 21/05/2024 13:16

Octavia64 · 21/05/2024 10:19

You need to be very careful.

Lynda has not said but there may be a reason why she needs the bigger space that she does not want to share with you,

If she has a medical need for the bigger space then you could end up in very difficult circumstances especially as the staff of the company seem to be bullying her for it.

Then it's up to Lynda to talk up and not keep everyone guessing. She's coming across really spiteful by doing this and deserves the backlash. Clearly Sue needs it, so if she had a genuine reason then she speaks up.

Theywonttakecouples · 21/05/2024 13:18

Roundroundthegarden · 21/05/2024 13:16

Then it's up to Lynda to talk up and not keep everyone guessing. She's coming across really spiteful by doing this and deserves the backlash. Clearly Sue needs it, so if she had a genuine reason then she speaks up.

No one is obliged to share their private medical information with the entire office.

Sendinsanity · 21/05/2024 13:18

Lynda is discovering that the consequences of being unnecessarily stubborn and uncompromising is that it means people don't like you.

Some disabled people think all disabilities are equal and all justify the exact same. In reality different needs have different requirements and we should be flexible to this and as a disabled person she should know this better than anyone

ThreePointOneFourOneFiveNine · 21/05/2024 13:19

I have a big van and big electric wheelchair, though I can walk so perhaps I am closer to Lynda in terms of disability. I would always leave a space for someone with greater need. I would also just use the normal loos to leave the disabled one free for Sue provided the normal loos didn't require lots of extra walking.

Lynda is being a dick. It's a bit of a minefield trying to deal with it though so I do think paying for some professional HR advice would be sensible. If you can tell her that her behaviour towards Sue has caused other staff to resent her without getting yourself sued I would do that. People need to learn that if you behave selfishly in a way that disadvantages someone else people are going to notice and judge you for it.

Is there any way the owners would allow you to officially allocate that space to Sue?